Deegan are quick to challenge one's unique thinking on this forum as heretical, blind, blasphemous, corrupt, of the flesh ----------------------- all your words at one time or another.
Thou shalt not Lie Details in the Bible
Lets see a post where I said this, or stop lying
Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:24:19 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:Jt:OUR UNITY IS IN HIM NOT, I REPEAT NOT, IN OUR AGREEMENT!!What unity? There is no strife or disunity in Christ and He is not divided so how can one be saying "I am of Torrance" and another "I am of Polyani"?Is Christ now divided? Was Torrance crucified for you, were you baptized in the name of Polyani?From: Judy TaylorOn Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:15:20 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:If I twist the scriptures, you wrote the book on that activity. And what is accomplished in this particular exchange? Nothing. What I just said is as shameful as your accusation.jt: I wrote it as a statement of fact not as a personal accusation John and if you received something other than my intent and refuse me grace then you are responsible for your own response - why do you insist on including me in this problem?What you see as "twisting" is, in reality, an honest but perhaps failing effort on my part to either express what I believe or to actually understand what God intends to be saying to me now. As I see it, the question does not center itself around "what is honest," but "what is dishonest." It is dishonest to assume that one is right to the exclusion of the possibility of being wrong. That is dishonest.jt: If I am wrong John, you (and others of your persuasion) are free to study it out and present me with appropriate scripture showing where I err in balance and context. You've not done this so far. You get angry and lose it - Bill takes his ball and goes home. Lance retreats behind sarcasm and pithy one liners and it appears as though Jonathan has retired.It is dishonest to deny the very heart of the gospel messsage -- that we all continue to possess sin and and that the blood continually flows in dealing with this problem. That is heresy.jt: I have not ever denied that we sin or that it very easily besets us John however I don't claim to own/possess it. I am in the process of separating myself from sin and putting on Christ because I am now part of a New Creation in Him. Where we differ is in how we deal with the situation. You claim there is blood that continually flows which I haven't found anywhere in scripture; whereas I boldly approach the throne of grace looking for help in time of need (Heb 4:16)It is blatantly dishonest to deny the Lord's concern for unity.jt: I don't deny the Lord's desire for unity, only this kind of unity (being of one mind and one heart) is impossible when we will not agree on the teaching or doctrine of Christ.He would be in tears over what happens on this sight among those who claim to be disciples. Can he save in spite of all this failure? Absolutely.jt: He wept over Jerusalem and He presently intercedes for those who are His so that we might overcome - However, when he returns he will be wearing another hat so to speak. It will be the Day of the Lord or the Day of Jacob's trouble and too late to change or repent - so this is life or death.but soteriological realities do not mean that we are brethren ----------------- something that I have recently learned.jt: Salvation realities? Why not? Jesus Himself said his family are the ones who do the will of His Father in heaven. He didn't mention those who have a good understanding of Greek words - obeying Him is where it's at.The prodical and his brother did not have much in common, did they. Both were equally immature and in need of the Father's love and patience -- a lesson that completely lost to most who read that passage.jt: You and your mentors place so much importance on that family relationship until your whole theology rests on it - but what about the "Sower sows the Word?" I don't see anyone pondering that parable - What are the different kinds of seed? - Why does one produce wheat and the other tares - Is one English and the other Greek?.
In a message dated 2/4/2005 10:49:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You are free to think whatever you like - it's not unusual for people twist God's Word every kind of way. jt
JD: We have nothing in common Judy -- your little slurs not withstanding.
jt: Surprised you would say this Jn, what about the "incarnation?" Nothing I write to you or anyone else is written as a slur per se; because it is important to me to walk in love so you are reading something into the text which was never intended by the author.
I do not believe a word of the above paragraph. I counsel couples often who justify their angry or otherwise worthless speech with the phrase, "this is not my intent."jt: But you are not my counselor John - we are on equal turf here and just because this was your experience withtroubled ppl who come to you for help why transpose their problem on to me?As a counselor, I get absolutely nothing accomplished [with couple's reconciliation] if I allow that explanation. Nothing. I have to look that person in the eye and disagree. What we do ON A CONSISTENT BASIS - AS A WAY OF LIFE, AS A PRACTICE, is a near perfect representation of what we truly believe.jt: That is not scriptural discernment Jn. It is "out of the abundance that fills the heart that the mouth speaks" You can locate a person by what comes out of their mouths - (if you are walking in the light yourself that is). I have no way of evaluating your performance as a "counselor" John or the results. I have some Christian friends who had marriage problems and the wife told me that they had been counseled to "act like" they love one another the feelings would follow. Well this proved to be a band-aid fix since they are now divorced. It takes wisdom from above along with a lot of love, time, patience, and spiritual discernment to get to the root of these problems, all we see is fruit. The problem is spiritual, it's an issue of the heart.Where it does not rise to the level of justification, it is the only avenue for meaningful reconciliation between couples. I do not accept this as an explanation -- "I did not intend ..." That is the incorrect response. The correct response, by the way, is "I am sorry and I will commit to trying much harder to respect not only your feelings but your very person [in Christ or in this marriage]."jt: I respectfully disagree; judging responses and trying to fix them will do nothing to change the underlying problem and our whole lives and every response can not be predicated upon how it might be received by those around us who are just as paranoid and wounded? Where's the freedom in that? This causes even more bondage and is why some (especially women) try to fabricate some personality and act in a way that is pleasing to everyone around them or else they become extremely controlling. Did you ever see a movie called "The Stepford Wives" John?If a marriage has a partner that will not come to this point in the conversation, you have a marriage that has already failed. The percentage figures for success in such cases -- marital success -- is zero. That is what I tell them in session. And that is what I am telling you.jt: When someone is only doing the right thing to get a certain response from the other party the person always knows andthis is not the ministry of Christ who set captives free by putting the finger of God on the problem rather than judging the situation by outward appearance and applying religious bandaids to their wound. If this is pastoral counselling then no wonder the statistics for divorce in the Church replicate those out there in the world.JD: The fact of the matter is this: under Miller's leadership or lack thereof, this forum is grossly embedded in tension and cultisms.
jt: I wouldn't blame DavidM for every problem here - He's only the List Creator/Owner. Do you hold God personally responsible for everything that has gone wrong with His Creation?
You equate God and Miller? You deny leadership accountability? Whatever.jt: There are some parallels - DM did create and he does sustain the TT list. As for accountability - ultimately we are all accountable to the one from whom it is impossible to hide and if we refuse to obey from the heart His hands are tied ....DM has about the same option other than becoming dictatorial and micro managing.
Not one thing has improved under his leadership, upon his return. Facts are facts.
jt: He never went anywhere Jn. He has been here all along - always giving loving oversight - which is usually criticized before it is rejected.
Miller was off list for two or three months.jt: He was quiet for 2-3 months; are you certain that he was gone? He has said that he is busy and Perry was moderating.
And pearls before swine thing -- well, the knife cuts both ways, my dear.
jt: Not for the redeemed. I am one of the redeemed (by His grace) and I am saying so...
Well, there you have it. Judy says she is part of the redeemed and thats that. The judgment with which you judge others is the very judgment you will and are experiencing. That is biblical.jt: I know it is John and it's also Biblical that the One who is my Judge will be using "righteous judgment" IOW He will not be judging by "what the eyes see or the ears hear" (Jn 7:24) So His judgment and yours are entirely different. Phew! What a relief! Thank you Lord.
I will pray for you, Linda, poor undereducated Deegan and mIller.
jt: Thanks but no thanks (for me anyway) - you would be praying contrary to God's will for me.
I do not pray for your approval.jt: And obviously you do not respect my desires (what is it you say to the troubled marriage ppl again?).
There is a great deal of potential in your allance and in each, individually.
jt: I'm not sure what you mean by the above since you believe we are all such a mess.
This is not "I am right and you are wrong." We are both a mess. But, of course, your comments above were only about continuing the debate. i meant what I said and will be happy to explain at an appropriate time.
Your immersion into the Christ of grace will be my prayer. JD
jt: I don't want to be immersed into what you've become part of John, so far as I can tell it is a downhill slide, you were much nicer when you first joined TT or at the start.
Sorry you feel this way. Really. But being nice and being honest is no longer an option for me. You, Shields, Miller and Deegan are quick to challenge one's unique thinking on this forum as heretical, blind, blasphemous, corrupt, of the flesh ----------------------- all your words at one time or another. You have never been nice. And so we will deal with each other in the future as opponents, openly and honestly. The cultish attitudes and teachings of the four of you is something that needs to be on the table. And there it is. Its kind of maddening being on the defensive, isn't it Judy?
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
