Lance,
Please consder that Dave starts off below by saying "Perry's original question was directed to Blaine", and ends by saying "If you don't want to hear my opinion, why ask for it???"
Well, if my question was directed to Blaine, then I didn't ask for his opinion! Am I the only one that sees the contradiction in Dave's statement?
Then he says "why do you condemn me for saying such when asked my opinion". Well, I didn't ask for his opinion, but when he offered it I was glad he responded, but I never condemned him for saying it.
I agreed that prayer is important, but asked why he never responded to my comment about how Paul says people are brought to faith (by preaching). He avoided commenting on that and took the conversation off in an entirely unrelated directions, something about bullhorns, and are bullhorns mentioned in the Bible. He avoided the Romans reference I gave entirely.
It is as though he cannot agree with a non-Mormon, even if it means disregarding what Paul said in Romans 10. I can only assume that he feels his own opinion outweighs that of Paul. Or maybe he feels this verse is not translated correctly, a convenient escape route set up by Joseph Smith in the LDS 8th article of faith: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly...".
Perry
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [email protected] To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Prayer in Evangelism Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:05:53 -0500
I concur with Dave on this point. Well said. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hansen To: [email protected] Sent: February 05, 2005 12:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Prayer in Evangelism
DAVEH: My latest response is in RED.......
Kevin Deegan wrote:
DAVE SAYS So I don't understand why Perry doesn't accept prayer as my answer to his question.
Because
FAITH COMES BY HEARING & HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD
ROM 10 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
DAVEH: Interestingly, Perry's original question was directed to Blaine as to how he thought Mormons should be evangelized. I took that to mean he was asking the opinions of Mormons how they think it would be best to approach them for evangelizing purposes. SO.....I simply offered my simple opinion as to what I think is most important....prayer. So again, I fail to understand why Perry (or you, Kevin) would find my proffered opinion a problem. If you don't want to hear my opinion, why ask for it???
I think it may be how little respect you have for the Word of God and how much respect you have for the WORD of Men. That seems to be the Mormon Perspective in a nutshell, "as far as it is translated correctly"
Do you accept Prayer as the only method for the LDS Missionary force?
Prayer is important
DAVEH: I'm glad you recognize that. So....why do you condemn me for saying such when asked my opinion?
BUT God says Preaching is the WISDOM of God, but foolishness to them that PERISH!
1 Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 CO 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
What is foolish to you is a SIGN that you are One who will PERISH. No one on TT wants to see you face that fate!
2 Pt 1 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
One might ponder how the Lord would want you to respond, to His Word.
DAVEH: Perhaps he would want me to remember the advice he gave his disciples as related in Luke 6:28
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:
Answer the question and stop diverting.
DAVEH: I answered Perry's original question with what I consider the best way to evangelize (Mormons)......PRAYER. My answer remains the same. That there may not be satisfactory Biblical evidence to satisfy Perry is not my problem. As I quoted Js 1:5, to me seeking the Lord's help in any endeavor lacking wisdom is the best approach. While the Bible may not explicitly spell out that prayer is important to bringing people to faith, I think both you and Perry have suggested that praying for those you wish to come to faith is useful. So I don't understand why Perry doesn't accept prayer as my answer to his question. Just why does he (and presumably you, Kevin) think prayer is important if you fellows did not come to that conclusion through your study of the Bible???
It seems to me that Perry wanted a Mormon's perspective, but does not appreciate that LDS folks are attracted to those aspects of religion that compliment their beliefs, and are repulsed by tactics that seem not to be respect others' beliefs. That's why I don't think head-on confrontational (underwear waving) street preaching is the best way to evangelize Mormons. Nor do I believe confrontational antics convey a positive Christian message to non Christians. One might ponder how the Lord would want his representatives to behave.
If you had any actual first hand evidence of the thigs that you tell tales about, THEN:
You would know we never use Bull Horns at GC They are not allowed nor do we need them when the crowd is but a few feet away.
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Charles Perry Locke wrote: G,
My question to Blaine was in response to his knocking SP's, particularly those at the LDS GC and their methods. I thought it would be interesting to find out what he thinks would be the best way to evangelize Mormons. While sending out missionaries two by may two work in peoples homes, it is not practical in a public open-air setting. Dave brought up prayer and bullhorns. Prayer is not how the Bible tells us people come to faith. While I believe tht praying for those you wish to come to faith is useful, Paul tells us that preaching is the way people hear the word of God. Paul made good on this himself, as did most of the Aposles. As for bullhorns, I must agree that if someone came into my house with a bullhorn and began to preach, I would not like it. But, if they needed to be heard over background noise, hecklers, or other noise in an outdoor setting, I thi nk bullhorns are a good tool.
DAVEH: But you do agree.....
Bullhorns are not how the Bible tells us people come to faith.
..........don't you? If so, Perry....why would you criticize my answer of prayer, and not criticize the SP's use of bullhorns?
Perry
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Prayer in Evangelism Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:28:38 -0700
there are *evangelical approaches to evangelizing* on which not all
evangelicals are agreeing, so what is *evangelical evangelizing*?
..also, how many street preachers involved in the SLC events discussed on
TT are evangelical/s?
e.g., what about Kevin's position on 'evangelicals'; maybe he prefers to
be understood in a non-evangelical category
..well, ftr perhaps Perry would delve into the background of his question
to BB, below(?)
also, ppl like Kevin, perhaps other street pre achers, too, will want to
distinguish themselves on this underlying issue--we'll see
G
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 07:09:34 -0800 Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
||
>
> DAVEH: Perry, I assume your reply means you really are not looking
> for an answer to your question posed at the very bottom[*]..to know how
> to *evangelize* Mormons.
||...
||...
[*]>>>>>>Blaine, please tell us what *evangelical approach* would
>>>>>>>work best with Mormons, especially at the General Conference.
--
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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