I have talked to some that have been Saved and because their minds were enlightened left that deathstyle
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BLAINE: I can't say, I am not an authority on Lesbianism. (:>)
However, being a product of University training in modern psychological reinforcement theory, I'd say any deviant behavior accrued from it being first engaged in, then repeated because it was pleasurable and therefore reinforcing. I speak English while the Hispanic speaks Spanish for the same reason. When I engaged in making sounds, only the English ones that were approved of (pleasure principle) by adults and other significant others were repeated. Does this make sense? I know several women who were not abused who nevertheless became Lesbians. I know two who were abused, but never became Lesbians, and in fact disdain Lesbian lifestyle. Go figure.
-- "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
Blaine, aren't most lesbians the product of sexual abuse or very abusive
parenting? That is not surprising to me. Izzy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Another Bad day in Utah
BLAINE: This is the kind of stuff Kevin reads--this is his "authority:" Be
sure to read the last half of the article, about the author's sister's
comments . . .
Rebel Mormon's memoir ignites a furor
Accusations: Author Martha Nibley Beck claims her father, a respected LDS
intellectual, abused her
By Peggy Fletcher Stack
The Salt Lake Tribune
Discuss this topic with other readers in the TribTalk Forums!.
A daughter of famed Mormon intellectual Hugh Nibley has accused him of
ritually abusing her as a 5-year-old, possibly wearing some kind of Egyptian
garb and imitating the sacrifice of the biblical Abraham.
Martha Nibley Beck makes this and a host of other allegations against her
aged father, mother, siblings, Brigham Young University, Mormons in general
as well as leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in an
explosive new book, Leaving the Saints: How I Lost the Mormons and Found My
Faith.
Beck, author of the best-seller Expecting Adam, takes the far side of
often virulent debates about recovered memories of sexual abuse versus false
memories, dissidents versus the LDS Church, scholarly debate about the
veracity of Mormon truth claims, and feminists versus patriarchal religions.
For many, especially non-LDS readers, it will be a compelling tale,
enlivened by hilarious as well as agonized dispatches from Mormon country.
Beck's "sarcastic self-scrutiny and laugh-out-loud prose elevate her
story far above the run-of-the-mill dysfunctional family memoir," said a
Dec. 15 review in Kirkus.
But Publisher's Weekly said the book was "marred by shallow, formulaic
anti-Mormon criticisms." And Tom Kimball, a Utah marketing director,
compared it to "a 19th century anti-Mormon narrative of Utah where women
claimed to have jumped into the Great Salt Lake from the towers of the Salt
Lake Temple and swam to safety."
Kimball worries that such an approach will "undermine the credibility of
those who have been legitimately abused by family and others and . . . that
apologists will use Martha's exaggerations and fabrications as an excuse to
discredit legitimate Mormon scholars who are critical of traditional or
orthodox Mormon claims."
Adds BYU sociologist Marie Cornwall: "If you believe 'Desperate
Housewives' is an accurate reflection of American society, then you'll
believe this book."
Leaving the Saints is scheduled to be published on March 8, the same
month that Nibley will turn 95. Beck, a columnist for Oprah Winfrey's
magazine O and a "life coach," will be promoting the book on a national tour
- which won't be stopping in Utah - hoping to sell the first printing of
75,000 copies.
Though the book is not yet available to the public, Beck said Friday
that she has been receiving "a lot of nasty e-mails."
Most of the large Nibley clan, including Beck's seven siblings, have
read parts or all of it. They have known about their sister's accusations
for more than a decade, but only heard about the book last November from her
ex-husband, John Beck. At that time, several of her sisters tried to talk
her out of publishing what they see as outrageous lies about their father
and their family.
"I don't believe it, not remotely," said Zina Nibley Petersen, the
next-youngest sister who shared a room and a bunk bed with Beck for much of
their childhood.
Martha had the upper bunk. One day when they were very small, the two
were playing on the top bunk when the slats shifted and the mattress
collapsed, dumping them on the floor and knocking out two of Zina's teeth.
"That was with two little wispy girls," Petersen recalled. "To say
nothing of an adult trying to manipulate a child into sex."
Their room was next-door to their parents', she said, and their mother
was a light sleeper. Doors were always open and walls were thin, she said.
Christina Nibley Mincek, the eldest daughter, said Beck's details of her
abuse grew after she first started telling them the story in the early
1990s. She added the Egyptian elements and vaginal scarring later, Mincek
said. She believes Beck's experience corresponds to someone who had a false
implanted memory.
Beck read Courage to Heal, a kind of how-to book about unleashing
recovered memories that was popular in the early 1990s, and was in therapy.
And she experimented with self-hypnosis, Mincek said.
"Martha wanted to teach me and her sisters how to recover these
memories," she said.
None did.
Even Rebecca Nibley, whom all siblings agree is Beck's strongest
supporter in the family, doesn't believe their father abused anyone.
"The one thing she wanted so badly was for us to say, 'it happened to me
too,' " she said. "But we couldn't because it didn't."
And Nibley, four years older than Beck,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Advertisement
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
is surprised that her sister failed to mention several key facts in this
memoir: that Beck and her husband are divorced and that both are gay.
"When the key issue in the book is her sexuality and how she got the way
she is, to leave that out is going to make her look foolish," Rebecca Nibley
said.
Beck responded that she left out that information because Leaving is a
memoir of her life between the ages of 25 and 30.
"At the time, I knew that my then husband John had struggled with
homosexual attractions and behavior for most of his life," she said.
The family has hired Christopher Barden, a psychologist and lawyer who
has testified in court cases on False Memory Syndrome. He has compiled
affidavits from all the Nibley siblings, some in-laws and their mother,
Phyllis. They are considering legal action against Beck or her publisher,
Random House in New York.
Hugh Nibley has been bedridden for two years and is mostly lucid, Alex
Nibley said. He is aware of the accusations and vehemently denies them.
Mormons have been feverishly circulating excerpts of the book on the
Internet. An editor's note mentioned it at the bottom of Beck's column in
January, and Nibley family friend Linda Smith has launched an e-mail
campaign to dissuade Oprah from giving Beck an additional platform in her
magazine or on her show to promote the book.
Such an organized reaction is "really surprising," Beck said by
telephone from her home in Phoenix. "I don't feel I'm significant enough."
But just about anyone else would have predicted the onslaught.
Her book makes many exaggerated claims about Mormons and Mormonism: that
the governing First Presidency maintains a "death squad . . . to deal with
malcontents," that the incidence of sex abuse among Mormon families far
exceeds any other group, that "virtually all Mormons agree with the current
prophet that mothers should not work under any circumstances," that the
church wire-tapped her home phone, that BYU removed all mention of Equal
Rights Amendment Mormon activist Sonia Johnson from its library and that a
Provo hairdresser insisted Beck get permission from her husband before
cutting her hair.
But more than anything, this book is about her view of one of the
church's most favored sons: Hugh Nibley.
For more than 50 years, he was leadership's go-to scholar on LDS claims
about the ancient origins of the Book of Mormon. The BYU-based Foundation
for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS) has spent the last couple of
decades building on his research.
Beck writes that 90 percent of his books' footnotes are invented, a fact
disputed by numerous proofreaders. And she blames the LDS Church for putting
her father in a bind by demanding that he prop up indefensible history.
"He could either lose his job, his livelihood, his social standing, his
bully pulpit, by publicly revealing information that would undermine the
very foundation of Mormonism, or he could lie flat out," she writes. "In a
way, I admire him for choosing the only other alternative: he went crazy."
Beck's family says she's the unstable one.
"She has a long history of mental illness, especially anorexia and
depression," Mincek said. "I am worried about her. [The negative mail] is
probably throwing her into a total panic."
On the contrary, Beck is at peace with her book.
"I write memoir and self-help because trusted editors and my own heart
seem to push me toward dealing with the most difficult issues of real life,"
she said. "I wrote this book now because it is about an experience that
taught me more than any other experience of my life about fear and pain as a
path to compassion, forgiveness, and hope."
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
