----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005
5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cult
behavior
JOHN says Romans 14 and I Cor 13 are two passages of
scripture written for the express purpose of showing us how to get along
in the face of doctrinal and personal disagreements.
KD says Romans 14 & 1 Co 13 have nothing to do with it they have
to do with brethren not heathen AND they are disputes over things that are
not condemned in scripture.Dealing with meat offered to idols is different
than dealing with the Idolatry itself. You misapply the text.
JOHN says What Dr. Mouw is doing is the only true
Christian response to the Mormon Church -- at this time and
with these present circumstances.
KD says How exactly IS DOCTOR Mouw doing the only true Christian
thing?
Can you provide scriptural basis for this or is there some other
Authority you look to?
JOHN says He knows full well that he does not speak for
the larger Christian Church.
KD says Then who is this "WE have sinned" group? Was he speaking
for you? In the use of WE, he did talk for ALL Evangelicals, who appointed
him the Evangelical POPE? He has upset many many Evagelicals and has had
to backpeddle numerous times since the original comments.
JOHN says More than one fellowship within the Larger Church
has been accepted in spite of questionable beginnings. ...
KD says Are you saying that everyone is a Christian?
Mormons are christian? Mormons are within the church and are to be
fellowshiped with?
How does Eph 5:11 square with this philosophy? And have no fellowship with the unfruitful
works of darkness, but rather reprove them
KD Paul at Athens?
Did Paul get a booth at the market to build bridges with them?
Paul waited for them at
Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the
city wholly given to
idolatry. KD Was he
grieved sore? What meaneth "spirit stirred in him"?
Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the
Jews
Are you saying "disputed" in the Word of God should have been
translated Dialoged?
Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars'
hill, and said
so he stands in the midst of a hill and says? Could this have been
preaching verses 22 tru 31 sure sounds like a sermon to me.
TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto
you.
Thats the way to dialog, tell them they are IGNORANT Paul!
How about at:
Philippi, we were bold in our
God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much
contention.
Thessalonica set all the city on
an uproar
Ephesus, whole city was filled
with confusion
Why did paul
say Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and
called the elders of the church ...
after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in
among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise,
speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Therefore WATCH not Sleep, WATCH not Dialog.
Disputing Preaching, calling names, Much Contention, uproars,
confusion a far cry from DiaLOGing!
I think you better check your Bible version to see if this is what it
says.
John says Dr. Mouw is to be honored, in my book, in
view of the fact that he seeks only a dialogue on this issue of
fellowship.
KD says NO Fellowship with evil Millions are in Hell right now
probably looking for Joe.
Mouw has given his assent to the LDS they love it they talk about it,
even DaveH has brought it up. It did not alert them at all to their
precarious state but instead grants authority to them being OK Every
Mormon walked out of the Tabernacle Just as LOST as they walked in, what a
lost opportunity. Some of the words used actually were turned around to
the Mormonspeak version to actually confirm Mormine doctrine such as we
will be married in heaven. This occured because of poor understanding on
the speakers part. And if you are getting a LARGE sum of Money you would
not say anything upsetting. Maybe he should have started out like Paul "YE
IGNORANTLY WORSHIP"!
Bill Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John wrote > Romans 14 and
I Cor 13 are two passages of scripture written for the express purpose
of showing us how to get along in the face of doctrinal and personal
disagreements. What Dr. Mouw is doing is the only true Christian
response to the Mormon Church -- at this time and with
these present circumstances. He knows full well that he
does not speak for the larger Christian Church. He has no
intention of compromising what he or anyone else believes and has been
very clear on that point. More than one fellowship within the
Larger Church has been accepted in spite of questionable
beginnings. ... Dr. Mouw is to be honored, in my book, in
view of the fact that he seeks only a dialogue on this issue of
fellowship. He is doing what Paul did in
Athens. Nothing more and nothing less. He is clearly
exemplifying the character of Christ in these matters.
Well stated, John. By the way, I had Mouw
in an apologetics class. I wish everyone who is disparaging him now
could have sat with me then in that class. They would have a much
better context through which to interpret his statements to the LDS;
they may even be able to understand what he was attempting to say
-- perhaps even agree with it :>) That course can be purchased on
tape through Fuller Theological Seminary, if you are interested; Lance
may even sell it, too(?) It is really good.
Oh, and your statement above seems to me
to have much in common with David's response to g,
concerning tolerance and its right place in the church and
our Lord's economy.
Good stuff,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 09,
2005 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cult
behavior
In a message dated 2/9/2005
4:52:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Unity with error is subversion to God
Community
with error is Complicity with error
God has commanded that we
identify and avoid or separate from error
A recent example
of complicity, is the president of Fuller Mouw which waxes worse
&worse decieving & being decieved
He is trying to build
bridges to LDS thru dialog
Yet he is being used by the LDS who
desparately want to be accepted as Christians AS IS to validate
themselves.
His basis for acceptance and reference for
doctrinal beliefs is Stephen Robinson a BYU Professor. Robinson
puts forth an "unorthodox" LDS theology which soundfs good to
Mouw
At the same time the GA's write off Robinson as
Liberal intellectuals thereby distancing themselves from his
unathorized Theology but gaining the benefit of the blessed peace
of Evangelical support
A number of LDS media have quoted Mouw
for support
There is no unity apart from
"error." The recent and not subtle Miller Four debackle
manifest in their inability to agree (even among themselves) on a
comprehensive doctrinal listing is,yet, another proof (yes, I said
"proof") that unity is not based on creedal concepts.
Romans 14 and I Cor 13 are two passages of scripture written
for the express purpose of showing us how to get along in the face
of doctrinal and personal disagreements. What Dr. Mouw is
doing is the only true Christian response to the Mormon Church
-- at this time and with these present
circumstances. He knows full well that he does not speak
for the larger Christian Church. He has no intention of
compromising what he or anyone else believes and has been very clear
on that point. More than one fellowship within the Larger
Church has been accepted in spite of questionable
beginnings. More than one fellowship within the Larger
Church remains in spite of skewed ideas and differing expressions of
faith. If the Miller Four cannot arrive at a doctrinally
agreeable listing -- it is little wonder that no else
can either.
The fact of the matter is
this --- we are individually servants of a
Another. The vegetarian and the holy day brother in
Romans 14 WERE DOCTRINALLY WRONG - and you only
substitute your truth for the biblical message when you (and I mean
"anyone") respond by arguing that meats and special days were not
"important" doctrines of the day. Romans 14 gives us the
inspired reason for accepting others as they stand in faith
with Christ. And I Cor 13 gives us sign posts as we move
to align our attitude with Christ's in dealing with
disagreements.
Dr. Mouw is to be honored, in my
book, in view of the fact that he seeks only a dialogue on
this issue of fellowship. He is doing what Paul did in
Athens. Nothing more and nothing less. He is clearly
exemplifying the character of Christ in these matters.
JD
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