Re: [TruthTalk] Universalism & Matthew 25

[Bill Taylor]

Hi Caroline Wong, glad to have you aboard. You bring a new perspective to the list. Thanks for the challenge.   A few months ago I sent an article to Lance, written, I believe, in 1949, the title being Universalism and Election. Its author is T.F. Torrance, who is himself not a universalist. His article was written in response to J.A.T. Robertson who was a universalist and had written a fairly compelling case for universalism. I would like to suggest that you get that article from Lance (knowing him as I do, I know he still has it and would be oh so willing to pass it along to you). Your first read of Torrance will leave you wondering how his position differs from classical universalism: read it again -- and again. It is election to adoption in Christ that distinguishes the two: What about the ones who refuse their election; what is their end? Torrance writes, "No doubt that is what the godless man wants above all, to escape from the eternal love of God. But God's love is eternal, and God's love has been once and for all enacted as an event that divides between love and what is anti-love. Love will not let go. Even when a man has made his bed in hell God's hand of love will grasp him there. To choose finally and for ever to say "No" to Jesus is to be held in a hell of one's own choosing and making. It is not God who makes hell, for hell is the contradiction of all that is of God. This is the horror of the great darkness that came upon Gethsemane and Calvary, that by decision, God risked the happening of the incredible, that men should still choose to contradict the utmost work of love, even in justifying the ungodly. That they did choose to do that at Calvary is a ghastly fact, and in that fact the Cross unmasks the bottomless dimension of sin in the human heart. The whole Bible stands aghast at this vast mystery of iniquity."    I will leave you with that as a teaser. I hope you will want to read the rest of Torrance's work to see what he considers to be the problems presented in Robertson's universalism. In closing I would like to state the obvious and then a thought or two as it relates to that upon which we may all agree: there is no good reason for not believing in Jesus Christ. Right? That, it seems to me, even on TT, is safe enough to say. Well, for no good reason some do refuse to believe. And it seems to me that they may go to hell who make this refusal. But we dare not point to God our fingers of blame for this. The only way humans can perhaps change the destiny provided us in Christ’s election and our eternal adoption in his person, is to finally refuse the reconciliation accomplished by him in his life, death, resurrection, and ascension. In other words, hell is to forever refuse his ongoing mediation in ascended glory on our behalf. As unfathomable as it sounds, this, it seems to me, is a real possibility. But this grounds reprobation not in God’s will but in our own. This is what Paul calls the "mystery of iniquity," an irrational uncertainty which does not originate from above -- no, God loves us and will never let us go; rather, it finds its source and ground down here, somewhere close I fear, somewhere very close to home.   Greetings,   Bill  ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Universalism & Matthew 25 I was raised a very proper Evangelical. 4 Spiritual Laws. Sola scriptura and sola fide. But life is a journey and change is the only constant. Not long ago, I emailed a former pastor and said I'm fast becoming a universalist! Please email back reasons why I shouldn't be! He had a good laugh.   The number one passage people bring up is Matthew 25 about eternal punishment and eternal life. Talbott says "eternal" here means long time but not...eternal (just as some would say a day is not a day and all does not mean all but those are debates for another time!!). He makes a good argument on the Greek term but, as someone else who has read the book said, it was not entirely compelling.    I think the key to Matthew 25 is the epistle of 1 John. The whole epistle helps but the key verse is 1 John 1:2 "The life appeared: we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us."   Eternal life is Christ Jesus. It is the incarnation. It is about us in Him and He in us. It is right now and more fully later. Even now, we are seated in the heavenly realms at the right hand side of our Father in Jesus Christ our brother, saviour and Lord. Right now we have eternal life because we have Him.   Getting eternal life is getting Jesus. Getting eternal punishment is getting the other guy. That parable does not contradict other teachings in the bible about salvation and God's love. While some will use this parable as saying hell is eternal just as heaven is eternal because it fits their theology, this parable no longer have to be the sticking point for universalism. The gates of hell can be stormed and the strong man's home can be plundered becasue he can be tied up. "O LORD, you brought me up from sheol" Psalm 30:3 "If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in sheol, you are there." Psalm 139:8   Universalism have biblical support and can be formulated in an internally coherent theology. There are several such systems now: exclusivism, inclusivism, annihilation, universalism. What resonates with your spirit? Jesus asked, "Who do you say that I am?" The system that  you choose depends on how you answer Jesus' question.   I thought I'd throw that in as most likely I can't spend too much time on TT and will be here less.   Love and God bless,   Caroline