Right Mormons have no need for Truth the Mormon testimony is based on Faith in spite of the facts. That makes it a more Faith filled testimony! You can really have faith when all the evidence is contrary to that faith! Faith must be built on Facts not fiction! 2 PT 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables "Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction -- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope." Thomas Edison
TRUTH IS NOT DETERMINED BY FEELINGS OR REVELATION
"Our individual, personal testimonies are based on the witness of the Spirit, not on any combination or accumulation of historical facts. If we are so grounded, no alteration of historical facts can shake our testimonies." Oaks "1985 CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium," Brigham Young University Aug. 16, 1985, page 26
http://www.exmormon.org/fourteen.htm Many LDS believeTruth is determined by feelings We believe we know the truth by our feelings. We do not rely on and we will disregard any facts that contradict what our feelings tell us is true. If something feels bad, like someone telling us that Joseph Smith was a fraud, then we know that Smith must of been a prophet since falsehoods create bad feelings and it feels bad when someone tells us that we have been duped. In other words, if we get a bad feeling, we are hearing bad things which must be lies. We feel good when we read the Book of Mormon, therefore it is true. Archeology, genetics, science, metallurgy, agriculture and animal studies are irrelevant since our feelings tell us it is a true book revealed by God. This good feeling applies to all aspects of our lives. We determine if we should do something or know the truth of something if we have prayed about it and have a good feeling about it.
Alma 32:21 And now as I said concerning faith--faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
"frankly state events as they occurred, in full consideration of all related circumstances, [and] allow the line of condemnation or justification to fall where it may... " B.H. Roberts
Furthermore you must TEST all things " The doctrines of the church cannot be fully understood unless it is tested by mind, by feelings, intellect and emotions, by every power of the investigator. Every church member is expected to understand the doctrine of the church intelligently. There is no place in the church for blind adherence." John A. Widstoe, Apostle, Evidence and Reconciliations, p. 226
"I say to the whole world, receive the truth, no matter who presents it to you. Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-Day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test." - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 16:46
Last but not least Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
"If I should hear a man advocate the erroneous principles he had imbibed through education, and oppose those principles, some might imagine that I opposed to that man, when I am opposed to every evil and erroneous principle he advances." Brigham Young, - Journal of Discourses 7:191
Not so revelation can never be in contradiction to what has already been revealed in the Bible IS 8:20 If it contradicts it is because it has NO LIGHT not some light in it! I never take Orange Dollars or Dollars with Daffy Duck pics I like real ones and it only takes ONE FALSEHOOD to make it a PHONY Bill ! ( ONE God not 3 or millions, Jesus is creator not created, Jesus born in Bethlehem & of the tribe of Judah not Jerusalem & tribe of Benjamin) What Now? What REVELATION has any of the MODERN Prophets revealed (Hinckley, Kimball etc Where are the revelations of theirs in the D&C?)
I am following the invitation of the past prophets: " Mormonism as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, for the doctrines of an imposter cannot be made to harmonize, in all particulars with divine truth. If his claims and declarations were built on fraud and deceit, there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect. The doctrines of false teachers will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement, the scriptures." - Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th President, Doctrines of Salvation 1: 188
"The nature of the message of the Book of Mormon is such, that if true, no one can possibly be saved and reject it, if false, no one can possibly be saved and receive it... if after a rigid examination it be found to be an imposition, it should be extensively published to the world as such; the evidences and arguments on which the imposture was detected should be clearly and logically stated, that those who have been sincerely yet unfortunately deceived may perceive the nature of the deception and be reclaimed... " Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon - Orson Pratt 1851
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin wrote:
BoM LANDS?
NONE
BLAINE: Serious research has just gotten under way, and already, Nahom (NHM)as a place name mentioned in the BoM has been located about where it should have been on the Arabian Peninsula. The place Bountiful has been positively identified. There are MANY places in Meso-America under investigation, showing much promise. The gold plates, from which the BoM was translated, were intended to be an abridgement of more extensive records, so it is no surprise that so few clues were given of exact places. Of the clues that were given, at least three books have been written, all pretty much agreeing on places in particular and general territory involved. The Rio Grijalve River in Meso America fits in every way the descriptions given of the Sidon River of the BoM. The entire area near there also fits. Give us a break, Kevin, we will find it all and more. Meanwhile, you and other nay-sayers and doubting Thomases will just have to be shown to believe, while those who showed faith and patience w/o absolute proof will not be ashamed.
Which reminds me, did I ask you what Jesus looked like while he sojourned on the earth as a mortal? He once said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." So, what do they look like? Black people insist he was Black. And what about Moses? or any other great prophet? They all exist in your imagination, Kevin, and each to his own where this is concerned. Yet you claim you believe in him, and you cited an entiore page of evidences of places, etc. Is that the basis for your testimony? Mormons will all tell you they have received a testimony from the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and need no such "proof" as you have shown your own beliefs and testimony to rest on. They say the same of truthfulness of the BoM. Which points up a fundamental difference between Morns as Christians, and those who profess more traditional Christianity. As Jesus said to Peter after he asked Peter, " He replied, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." And Jesus then revealed to him that he, Peter, only knew
that by revelation, not by means of the testimony of men (flesh and blood). You have already many times denied the possiblity of revelation beyond what is in the Bible, so what now, Kevin?
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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