Re: [TruthTalk] Perfect Church?

[Bill Taylor]

Thank you, David, very much for your response. This post is indeed quite helpful to me. I have been aware throughout that there are many uses of the word "perfect." You have helped me -- I guess finally :>) to see how it is that you are using it. And, I have been where you are right now many times: You are like, "Well, duh, that is what I have been telling you!" I know. I know -- but sometimes it just takes that one more time before things start to register. Anyway, I am very comfortable with what you are describing below. I think this is where each one of us ought to be; I think it is where we should be; and I think it is where we can be. So, right on, my brother!   Do you mind if I add something to this? I know you will agree with me on most of this, but I want to say it just for the benefit of having it "out there." If for whatever reason we are not where we ought to be, and we have fallen back into the lies of this world, or even if we are trying to walk a tightrope between two "worlds" (we're not really all that bad, in other words), that does not mean that there is no hope for us; rather, it means that we have lost that which gives us hope. John says in his first epistle that we may know that we know him (the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit) -- if we keep his commandments (2.3). This verse gets to the heart of a right epistemology. The only assurance or "certainty" that we have that what we "know" is true, is if we are walking in the commandments of God. And this is because obedience is our alignment with truth. God reaches out to us in our obedience -- and please do not take from this that he does not reach out to us when we are sinning; the thing of it is, is that when we are sinning, we are not looking toward his outreach but away from it. In other words, we are looking into the abyss and there is no hope in that (because there is no future in that).   This is where repentance comes in -- and confession. God is ever ready to hear our confessions because that is our first act in repentance (that change of mind which leads to a course change in our lives): we are ready now to speak to the truth of our situation -- to be "real" about ourselves. How important this is!   David, we can continue to work on our differences -- yours and mine, and your camp's and the camp I'm in -- in regards to reconciliation and forgiveness, and when they take/took place, but what I want you to see (and I am thinking you probably do on most of this) is that forgiveness is that which opens the door to realization. God does not wait to forgive us "until" we get it right; he forgives us in order that we may get it right. We can approach him because he has forgiven us (that is the significance of the curtain having been torn). It is in the realization that we have been forgiven that we find the confidence to be real about who we are and what we have accomplished. In this realization the angst disappears. We are set free from that which held us in bondage; therefore we may now live for him who set us free. And O how great that is! Do you realize that there is absolutely no angst whatsoever in assurance (keeping in mind what I said above about walking in obedience)? When we begin to believe like this, it develops into an obedient lifestyle, which in turn produces assurance. This has got to be our message to a "lost" world! Who among us would not want to repent, if he or she knew what hope was like? (And I know as soon as I say this that there are those who will forever hear this but never act upon it; it's that ever-learning-but-never-coming-to-the-knowledge-of-truth syndrome that Paul talks about.) I guess that's kind of the point, though, isn't it: they don't know what hope is like.   Well, anyway, I've taken enough of your time. Thanks again for hanging in there with me. You have been most helpful.   Bill  ----- Original Message ----- From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perfect Church? Bill wrote: > "Perfect," David? Or where they were expected > to be in their particular stage of development?   Both.  Perfect is a word that has a broad range of meaning.  If a hungry person eats a cheeseburger that he finds very delicious, he might say, "this cheeseburger is perfect.  It hits the spot."  Or if your child is writing very well, you might say, "your penmanship is perfect."  Or suppose someone is applying for a job, and you comment, "John is a perfect candidate for this position."  Such comments do not mean that they cannot be improved upon.  What is meant is that there is no discernable fault.    When Paul refers to himself and others as perfect (Phil. 3:15), he does not mean that they no longer grow.  Rather, he means that they are where they are expected to be in their particular stage of development.   Peace be with you. David Miller.