Well, I did ask and there is it ---- just shows to go ya what my emphasis has been. I just don't see the "wrath of God" jumping off the pages as I read. Probably not good -- that I didn't see it. I know it is there, of course, but failed to see this mention of salvation from .......
There has been a very good post on the wrath of God (IMO) by Bill Taylor. I would post it at this time but for one sad fact -- the disk to which I saved it is poorly formated and did not save any of the several emails I sent to it. Very upsetting.
If Bill is reading today's mail and has this post, I would ask him to repost.
But, what to do with the scriptures below. And Mr. Deegan seems to think I am in some kind of error because I asked ------------------ apparently having not read my post of last evening. I addressed the "wrath of God" and will do so again.
In a message dated 4/13/2005 4:47:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JD sazs Scripture for this? and by this question, I am asking how you establish the above in scripture? Is there a N.T. scripture that speaks of being "saved from His wrath" -- there may be but where is it?
It is in the Holy BIBLE - Read it:
Rom 5:8-9 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
There are two words used for "wrath." One can mean "indignation' (thumos) and the other is "that in God which stands opposed to disobedience" (Thayer, orge).
Both definitions allow for this application: "the deep disppointment of our Father God."
We are lost because we follow our own way -- see previous post last evening -- and not for any other reason. In fact, that condition happens in this life; we are dead already. As the Father God, He is deeply disappointed in our choices -- stands opposed to our selfishness (called "disobedience") and will not force good times and spiritual health on any..............so in the end, we get what we have lived. Hell is a continuation of that negative process. God is at work within us to will and accomplish what He knows is best for us ........ when we refuse His direction (salvation) and seek our own way, He continues to draw, we continue to resist and hell has it's first root in that conflict.
JN 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him
The choice is life or the deep disppointment of the Heavenly Father. What is important, here, is that God continues with the sinning individual. His dissappointment is "on him." He is angry in the same way a loving father is angry. How do we know? Well .................................... perhaps because He is a loving Father.
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1 Thes Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
For the deep disappointent of the Heavenly Father is upon them ........ I will never leave you nor forsake you .................. He does not love everything we do. Some of what we might do is self destructive - but He will continue with us because He loves us and, thus, is disappointed in our poor choices. Hell (after death) marks the end of that tension. But Romans 1:24ff makes it clear that in some cases, God the Father moves away from this tension, turning some over to the lusts of their hearts. Nothing worse, I suppose, than for God to say, "You are on your own."
Rm 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God
It is a fearful thing to have to go into the front room, sit down, and wait for your angry Dad to come in and confront you. And why the confrontation? Because that father loves his son. So what's knew? Again, "damnation" is what we do to ourselves. It is not the wrath of God that sends us to "hell." We are dead already.
ye do err not knowing the scriptures.
