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Not nowhere, Raymond, but not where he
thinks.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: May 12, 2005 17:57
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Founder
of Mormonism, was Mormon Underwear, was "bapti sm"
Kevin--
Slander (and ignorance) will get you nowhere.
Satans footprints are all over your "religion" because he is the father
of it.
Blaine:
Yeah, I read it, Kevin. I am off work today, so have plenty of time. All
it seems to be saying is that whenever the Saints are about to receive
spiritual gifts, or other manifestations of God's love and mercy, the "man
of sin," or the devil, tries to block it. He is the opposition. He works
through you, Kevin, as you go to great lengths to discourage us from
learning the truth. Wierd, though, often what you write has the opposite
of your intended effect. It sure does on me. I actually enjoy some of what
you dig up. LOL
ANYONE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING this?
Joe
meets the ANGEL of LIGHT and is SEIZED and binds tongue
JSH
http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1 I had never as yet made the attempt to
pray vocally
After I had retired to the place where I had previously
designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I
kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had
scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which
entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to
bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around
me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden
destruction.... I saw a pillar of light
What is with the SPIRIT of
DUMBNESS?
HC V1 p 175 HC chap XV
ON the 3rd1 of June, the Elders
from the various parts of the country where they were laboring; Important
came in; and the conference before appointed, convened in Kirtland; and
the Lord displayed His power to the most perfect satisfaction of the
Saints. The man of sin was revealed,2 and the authority of the Melchizedek
Priesthood was manifested and conferred for the first time upon several of
the Elders
footnote
The manner in which the man of sin was revealed
and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood manifested is related by
John Whitmer in his History of the Church (ch. 7). After giving the names
of those who were ordained High Priests the day on which the two powers
were manifested he says: �Joseph Smith, Jun. prophesied the day previous
that the man of sin would be revealed While the Lord poured out His Spirit
upon His servants the devil took a notion to make known his power He bound
Harvey Whitlock and John Murdock so that they could not speak, and others
were affected but the Lord showed to Joseph, the seer the design of the
thing he commanded the devil in the name of Christ and he departed to our
joy and comfort.�
CAN YOU SEE THE SIGNS?
Parley P Pratt
Autobiography p 72 "In this conference much instruction was given by
President Smith, who spoke in great power, as he was moved upon by the
Holy Ghost: and the spirtit of power and of testimony rested down upon the
Elders in a marvelous manner. here also were some STRANGE MANIFESTATIONS
of FALSE SPIRITS, which were immediately rebuked."
SAME
MANIFESTATION THAT OVERTOOK JOE IN THE SACRED GROVE
In Kirtland, Ohio,
in June, 1831,... the first High Priests were ordained.... When they were
ordained, right there at the time, the devil caught and bound Harvey
Whitlock so he could not speak, his face twisted into demon-like shape.
Also John Murdock and others were caught by the devil in a similar manner.
Now brethren, do you not see that the displeasure of the Lord was upon
their proceedings, in ordaining High Priests? Of course it was (AATABIC,
pp...64-65).
Account of missionaries to great britain Church History
and Modern Revelation by Joseph Fielding Smith, pp. 98,99.
It is
recorded that about daybreak Sunday, July 10, 1837, Elder Isaac Russell
who had been selected to preach at the Obelisk in Preston marketplace that
day, and who occupied the second story of the lodging of the elders in
Wilford Street, went up to the third loft where Elders Hyde and Kimball
were sleeping, and called upon them to pray for him, that he might be
delivered from the evil spirits that were tormenting him to such a degree
that he felt he could not live long unless he obtained relief. The story
is a most interesting one, but one that chilled the blood of the elders.
It is told as follows by Elder Kimball:
"I had been sleeping on the
back of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed,
and passed around to where he [Elder Russell] was. Elder Hyde threw his
feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth,
and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuke the
devil.
"While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some
invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. The first thing I
recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards who were
praying for me, Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room.
Elders Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony
was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and
prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to
our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and
gnashed their teeth at us. We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by
Willard's watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the
wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions,
with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us
like armies rushing to battle. They appeared to be men of full stature,
possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and
desperate; and I shall never forget the vindictive m
alignity depicted
on their countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to
paint the scene which then presented itself or portray their malice and
enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet
as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in
the greatest distress for some time. I cannot even look back on the scene
without feelings of horror; yet by it I learned the power of the
adversary, his enmity against the servants of God, and got some
understanding of the invisible world. We distinctly heard these spirits
talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us. However, the
Lord delivered us from them, and blessed us exceedingly that
day."
Elder Hyde supplemented this description as
follows:
"Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils is
just as fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the moment of
its occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were overcome by them
and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats,
imprecations and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no
friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless [page 100] and
lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I
stood between you and the devils and fought them and contended with them
face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from
the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out
and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to
them, 'I never said anything against you!' I replied to him thus: 'It
matters not to me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the
beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!' He immediately left, and
the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the ti
me."
D.H...C. 2:503. "Life of Heber C. Kimball," pp. 130
131.)
Missionary Letter dated: Sept. 2, 1837
by Apostle Heber C.
Kimball From The Elder's Journal, pp. 4-7
A singular circumstance
occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal,
as he wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder Russell was much
troubled with evil spirits and came into the room where Elder Kimball and
myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the
evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and Br. Kimball got upon the floor and I
sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and
prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his voice
faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and
fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I
immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied
that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out
of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as
if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the
floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our hands on Elder Kimba
ll
and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately
he recovered his strength in part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll
from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken
out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and
foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two
after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us and prevent
the truth from being declared in England." The devil was mad because I was
going to baptize and he wanted to destroy me that I should not do those
things the Lord sent me to do. We had a great struggle to deliver
ourselves from his hands.
Please note: message
attached
Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:30:04 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Founder of Mormonism, was Mormon Underwear, was "baptism"
To:
[email protected]
ANYONE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING this?
Joe meets the ANGEL of LIGHT and is SEIZED and binds
tongue
After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to
go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and
began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so,
when immediately I was seized upon by some power which
entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing
influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I
could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around
me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden
destruction.... I saw a pillar of light
What is with the SPIRIT of DUMBNESS?
HC V1 p 175 HC chap XV
ON the 3rd1 of June, the
Elders from the various parts of the country where they were laboring;
Important came in; and the conference before appointed, convened in
Kirtland; and the Lord displayed His power to the most perfect
satisfaction of the Saints. The man of sin was revealed,2
and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood was manifested and
conferred for the first time upon several of the Elders
footnote
The manner in which the man of sin was
revealed and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood manifested is
related by John Whitmer in his History of the Church (ch. 7). After giving
the names of those who were ordained High Priests the day on which the two
powers were manifested he says: �Joseph Smith, Jun. prophesied the day
previous that the man of sin would be revealed While the Lord poured out
His Spirit upon His servants the devil took a notion to make known his
power He bound Harvey Whitlock and John Murdock so that they could
not speak, and others were affected but the Lord showed to
Joseph, the seer the design of the thing he commanded the devil in the
name of Christ and he departed to our joy and comfort.�
CAN YOU SEE THE SIGNS?
Parley P Pratt
Autobiography p 72 "In this conference much instruction was given by
President Smith, who spoke in great power, as he was moved upon by the
Holy Ghost: and the spirtit of power and of testimony rested down upon the
Elders in a marvelous manner. here also were some STRANGE
MANIFESTATIONS of FALSE SPIRITS, which were immediately rebuked."
SAME MANIFESTATION THAT OVERTOOK JOE IN THE SACRED
GROVE
In Kirtland, Ohio, in June, 1831,... the first High Priests were
ordained.... When they were ordained, right there at the time, the
devil caught and bound Harvey Whitlock so he could not speak, his
face twisted into demon-like shape. Also John Murdock and
others were caught by the devil in a similar manner. Now
brethren, do you not see that the displeasure of the Lord was upon their
proceedings, in ordaining High Priests? Of course it was (AATABIC,
pp.64-65).
Account of missionaries to great britain Church History
and Modern Revelation by Joseph Fielding Smith, pp. 98,99.
It is recorded that about daybreak Sunday, July 10, 1837, Elder Isaac
Russell who had been selected to preach at the Obelisk in Preston
marketplace that day, and who occupied the second story of the lodging of
the elders in Wilford Street, went up to the third loft where Elders Hyde
and Kimball were sleeping, and called upon them to pray for him, that he
might be delivered from the evil spirits that were tormenting him
to such a degree that he felt he could not live long unless he
obtained relief. The story is a most interesting one, but one that chilled
the blood of the elders. It is told as follows by Elder Kimball:
"I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose,
slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he [Elder
Russell] was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we
laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have
mercy on him, and rebuke the devil.
"While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some
invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. The first thing
I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards who were
praying for me, Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room.
Elders Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony
was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and
prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to
our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits,
who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. We gazed upon
them about an hour and a half (by Willard's watch). We were not looking
towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we
saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a
few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle. They
appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of
men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I shall never forget
the vindictive malignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me
in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself
or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired
exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the
river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for some
time. I cannot even look back on the scene without feelings of horror; yet
by it I learned the power of the adversary, his enmity against the
servants of God, and got some understanding of the invisible world. We
distinctly heard these spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish
designs against us. However, the Lord delivered us from them, and blessed
us exceedingly that day."
Elder Hyde supplemented this description as follows:
"Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils is just as
fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the moment of its
occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were overcome by them and
had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations
and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine.
While you were apparently senseless [page 100] and lifeless on the floor
and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I stood between you and
the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until
they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last
imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to
apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, 'I never said
anything against you!' I replied to him thus: 'It matters not to me
whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the
name of Jesus Christ depart!' He immediately left, and the room was clear.
That closed the scene of devils for the time." D.H.C. 2:503. "Life of
Heber C. Kimball," pp. 130 131.)
Missionary Letter dated: Sept. 2, 1837
by Apostle Heber C. Kimball
From The Elder's Journal, pp. 4-7
A singular circumstance occurred
before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he
wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder Russell was
much troubled with evil spirits and came into the room
where Elder Kimball and myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our
hands on him and rebuke the evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and
Br. Kimball got upon the floor and I sat upon the bed. We laid our
hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just
before he had finished his prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was
shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the
floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I
immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied
that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out
of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as
if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he
fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our
hands on Elder Kimball and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus
Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so as to get
up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was
almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could
very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame.
Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that
the devils are determined to destroy us and prevent the truth from being
declared in England." The devil was mad because I was going to
baptize and he wanted to destroy me that I should not do those things the
Lord sent me to do. We had a great struggle to deliver ourselves
from his hands.
Charles Perry Locke
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Perry
wrote:
>>Holey skivvies with masonic emblems on them...the
square and the compass.
>>Tools of the craft.
Raymond
wrote:
>Hmmmm... It's clear that you are in attack
mode.
Since when is mentioning a fact about mormon undergarments
an attack? How
can we reasonably discuss facts if, when I mention
them, you perceive it as
an attack?
>But I would have you
know that there major difference between masonic
>rituals and LDS
temple ceremony. Although, you wouldn't know that would
>you.
I know that there are differences...but it is the
similarities that
interest me. As for what I do and do not know, I
am neither a freemason nor
a mormon. So, I have learned what I know
by reading about both. There may be
errors in what I have read. If
you see error in what I have read, and
stated, then please correct
me, but please give me references so I can
verify them for
myself.
>The teachings in the temple have nothing to do with
'Tools of the craft.'
>You've been reading to much anti-Mormon
literature. You should spend more
>time learning truth.
I
did not say that the teachings in the temple have anything to do with
'Tools of the craft'. I was referring specifically to the square and
compass
being 'tools of the craft', where 'the craft' is
freemasonry, and their
presence on mormon underwear. Do you know
anyting about freemasonry? Are you
a freemason?
The thing
that interests me about the 'tools of the craft' (freemasonry
being
'the craft') being embroidered onto the mormon underwear is why JS
chose to use these symbols of freemasonry on the underwear. Did he
'borrow'
the symbology from freemasonry? Did he receive a revelation
or vision that
he should use these symbols on the underwear? Do you
think that the use of
these symbols by freemasons pre-dates JS's use
of them on the underwear? If
JS received revelation about using
these, please refer me to the document
that states the revelation so
I can read it for myself. I prefer not to read
some mormon's biased
commentary about it...I prefer the original
source.
Perry
----------
"Let your speech be always
with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to
answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.....InnGlory.org
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