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Mr. Bothoms:May ask of you your age? You 'sound
like a stripling, a youth, a novice, (he goes on ad synonym). When you complete
'elder' McConkie then, call us.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: May 13, 2005 19:20
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Founder
of Mormonism, was Mormon Underwear, was "bapti sm"
Oh come on now-- Have you read the book called Mormon Doctrine?
Have you even seen it? It's one of the most popular books in LDS
literature. I've read most of it. There is a lot of great
information in it. An angel of light is an angel of God. There is
a notation to see: Devil. Why? Because according to the
Scriptures, Satan can appear almost as an angel of light. And what do
you mean by "sacRED Grove"? Further, I don't think you have any idea
what keys Elder Bruce R. McConkie held or currently holds. Additional
note: Elder McConkie wrote the book not the Church. Kevin
Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Even your Church admits who it was that Joe met in the "sacRED
Grove"
Facts are stubborn things:
The "Explanatory Introduction" in the Doctrine & Covenants states
very specifically that the angel, Moroni, was an angel of light. Here is the
quotation, from The most CORRECTED book on earth:
"...In September,
1823, and at later times, Joseph Smith received visitations from Moroni, an
angel of light,who revealed the resting place of the
ancient record from which The Book of Mormon was afterward
translated."
Why would the Mormon First Presidency use this term
"angel of light"?
Did they know what they were saying? They must have
because Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie certainly did. McConkie wrote the
widely read book, Mormon Doctrine, which has been printed by Bookcraft Press
in Salt Lake City since the 1950's. In that book McConkie
references the
term "Angel of Light" with two words-SEE DEVIL!
I
did not write the above, your Church wrote it. As a Apostle McConkie is also
a holder of the Keys.
Bothoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Kevin--
Slander (and ignorance) will get you nowhere.
--Raymond
Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Satans footprints are all over your "religion" because he is the
father of it.
Joe was an occultist, "seized" by Satan see JSH
1
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Blaine:
Yeah, I read it, Kevin. I am off work today, so have plenty of time.
All it seems to be saying is that whenever the Saints are about to
receive spiritual gifts, or other manifestations of God's love and
mercy, the "man of sin," or the devil, tries to block it. He is the
opposition. He works through you, Kevin, as you go to great lengths to
discourage us from learning the truth. Wierd, though, often what you
write has the opposite of your intended effect. It sure does on me. I
actually enjoy some of what you dig up. LOL
ANYONE INTERESTED
IN FOLLOWING this?
Joe meets the ANGEL of LIGHT and is SEIZED
and binds tongue
JSH http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1 I had never
as yet made the attempt to pray vocally
After I had retired to the
place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me,
and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the
desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I
was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such
an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could
not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for
a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.... I saw a pillar of
light
What is with the SPIRIT of DUMBNESS?
HC V1 p 175 HC
chap XV
ON the 3rd1 of June, the Elders from the various parts of
the country where they were laboring; Important came in; and the
conference before appointed, convened in Kirtland; and the Lord
displayed His power to the most perfect satisfaction of the Saints.
The man of sin was revealed,2 and the authority of the Melchizedek
Priesthood was manifested and conferred for the first time upon
several of the Elders
footnote
The manner in which the man of
sin was revealed and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood
manifested is related by John Whitmer in his History of the Church
(ch. 7). After giving the names of those who were ordained High
Priests the day on which the two powers were manifested he says:
�Joseph Smith, Jun. prophesied the day previous that the man of sin
would be revealed While the Lord poured out His Spirit upon His
servants the devil took a notion to make known his power He bound
Harvey Whitlock and John Murdock so that they could not speak, and
others were affected but the Lord showed to Joseph, the seer the
design of the thing he commanded the devil in the name of Christ and
he departed to our joy and comfort.�
CAN YOU SEE THE
SIGNS?
Parley P Pratt Autobiography p 72 "In this conference much
instruction was given by President Smith, who spoke in great power, as
he was moved upon by the Holy Ghost: and the spirtit of power and of
testimony rested down upon the Elders in a marvelous manner. here also
were some STRANGE MANIFESTATIONS of FALSE SPIRITS, which were
immediately rebuked."
SAME MANIFESTATION THAT OVERTOOK JOE IN
THE SACRED GROVE
In Kirtland, Ohio, in June, 1831,... the first
High Priests were ordained.... When they were ordained, right there at
the time, the devil caught and bound Harvey Whitlock so he could not
speak, his face twisted into demon-like shape. Also John Murdock and
others were caught by the devil in a similar manner. Now brethren, do
you not see that the displeasure of the Lord was upon their
proceedings, in ordaining High Priests? Of course it was (AATABIC,
pp.....64-65).
Account of missionaries to great britain Church
History and Modern Revelation by Joseph Fielding Smith, pp.
98,99.
It is recorded that about daybreak Sunday, July 10,
1837, Elder Isaac Russell who had been selected to preach at the
Obelisk in Preston marketplace that day, and who occupied the second
story of the lodging of the elders in Wilford Street, went up to the
third loft where Elders Hyde and Kimball were sleeping, and called
upon them to pray for him, that he might be delivered from the evil
spirits that were tormenting him to such a degree that he felt he
could not live long unless he obtained relief. The story is a most
interesting one, but one that chilled the blood of the elders. It is
told as follows by Elder Kimball:
"I had been sleeping on the back
of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed,
and passed around to where he [Elder Russell] was. Elder Hyde threw
his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being
mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuke
the devil.
"While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by
some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. The first thing
I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards who were
praying for me, Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room.
Elders Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my
agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees
and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was
opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who
foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. We gazed upon them about an hour
and a half (by Willard's watch). We were not looking towards the
window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the
devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few
feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle. They
appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature
of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I shall never
forget the vindictive m
alignity depicted on their countenances as
they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which
then presented itself or portray their malice and enmity, would be
vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had
been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the
greatest distress for some time. I cannot even look back on the scene
without feelings of horror; yet by it I learned the power of the
adversary, his enmity against the servants of God, and got some
understanding of the invisible world. We distinctly heard these
spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us.
However, the Lord delivered us from them, and blessed us exceedingly
that day."
Elder Hyde supplemented this description as
follows:
"Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils
is just as fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the
moment of its occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were
overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives,
threats, imprecations and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they
were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless [page
100] and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you
there), I stood between you and the devils and fought them and
contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in
number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned
around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and
appease my determined opposition to them, 'I never said anything
against you!' I replied to him thus: 'It matters not to me whether you
have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of
Jesus Christ depart!' He immediately left, and the room was clear.
That closed the scene of devils for the ti
me." D.H.....C. 2:503.
"Life of Heber C. Kimball," pp. 130 131.)
Missionary Letter
dated: Sept. 2, 1837
by Apostle Heber C. Kimball From The Elder's
Journal, pp. 4-7
A singular circumstance occurred before morning,
which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he wrote it down.
He commences as follows: "Elder Russell was much troubled with evil
spirits and came into the room where Elder Kimball and myself were
sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil
spirit. I arose upon the bed and Br. Kimball got upon the floor and I
sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked
and prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his
voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel
to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep
groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up,
being satisfied that the devils were exceeding angry because we
attempted to cast them out of Brother Russel and they made a powerful
attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck
him senseless and he fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then
laid our hands on Elder Kimba
ll and rebuked the evil spirits, in
the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in
part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully
and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We
could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their
shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems
that the devils are determined to destroy us and prevent the truth
from being declared in England." The devil was mad because I was going
to baptize and he wanted to destroy me that I should not do those
things the Lord sent me to do. We had a great struggle to deliver
ourselves from his hands.
Please note: message
attached
Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:30:04 -0700
(PDT)
From: Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Founder
of Mormonism, was Mormon Underwear, was "baptism"
To:
[email protected]
ANYONE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING this?
Joe meets the ANGEL of LIGHT and is SEIZED and binds
tongue
After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed
to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled
down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had
scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some
power which entirely overcame me, and had
such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my
tongue so that I could not speak.
Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to
me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.... I saw a
pillar of light
What is with the SPIRIT of DUMBNESS?
HC V1 p 175 HC chap XV
ON the 3rd1 of June,
the Elders from the various parts of the country where they were
laboring; Important came in; and the conference before appointed,
convened in Kirtland; and the Lord displayed His power to the most
perfect satisfaction of the Saints. The man of sin was
revealed,2 and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood
was manifested and conferred for the first time upon several of the
Elders
footnote
The manner in which the man of sin
was revealed and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood
manifested is related by John Whitmer in his History of the Church
(ch. 7). After giving the names of those who were ordained High
Priests the day on which the two powers were manifested he says:
�Joseph Smith, Jun. prophesied the day previous that the man of sin
would be revealed While the Lord poured out His Spirit upon His
servants the devil took a notion to make known his power He bound
Harvey Whitlock and John Murdock so that they could not
speak, and others were affected but the Lord showed to
Joseph, the seer the design of the thing he commanded the devil in the
name of Christ and he departed to our joy and comfort.�
CAN YOU SEE THE SIGNS?
Parley P Pratt
Autobiography p 72 "In this conference much instruction was
given by President Smith, who spoke in great power, as he was moved
upon by the Holy Ghost: and the spirtit of power and of testimony
rested down upon the Elders in a marvelous manner. here also were
some STRANGE MANIFESTATIONS of FALSE SPIRITS, which
were immediately rebuked."
SAME MANIFESTATION THAT OVERTOOK JOE IN THE SACRED
GROVE
In Kirtland, Ohio, in June, 1831,... the first High Priests were
ordained.... When they were ordained, right there at the time, the
devil caught and bound Harvey Whitlock so he could not speak,
his face twisted into demon-like shape. Also John Murdock
and others were caught by the devil in a similar
manner. Now brethren, do you not see that the displeasure of
the Lord was upon their proceedings, in ordaining High Priests? Of
course it was (AATABIC, pp.64-65).
Account of missionaries to great britain Church
History and Modern Revelation by Joseph Fielding Smith, pp.
98,99.
It is recorded that about daybreak Sunday, July 10, 1837, Elder
Isaac Russell who had been selected to preach at the Obelisk in
Preston marketplace that day, and who occupied the second story of the
lodging of the elders in Wilford Street, went up to the third loft
where Elders Hyde and Kimball were sleeping, and called upon them to
pray for him, that he might be delivered from the evil spirits
that were tormenting him to such a degree that he felt he
could not live long unless he obtained relief. The story is a most
interesting one, but one that chilled the blood of the elders. It is
told as follows by Elder Kimball:
"I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose,
slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he
[Elder Russell] was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the
bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord
would have mercy on him, and rebuke the devil.
"While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by
some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. The
first thing I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and
Richards who were praying for me, Elder Richards having followed
Russell up to my room. Elders Hyde and Richards then assisted me to
get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I
arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed,
when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly
see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their
teeth at us. We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by
Willard's watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards
the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in
legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They
came towards us like armies rushing to battle. They appeared to be men
of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the
flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I shall never forget the
vindictive malignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me
in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented
itself or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired
exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of
the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for
some time. I cannot even look back on the scene without feelings of
horror; yet by it I learned the power of the adversary, his enmity
against the servants of God, and got some understanding of the
invisible world. We distinctly heard these spirits talk and express
their wrath and hellish designs against us. However, the Lord
delivered us from them, and blessed us exceedingly that day."
Elder Hyde supplemented this description as follows:
"Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils is just
as fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the moment of
its occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were overcome by
them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats,
imprecations and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no
friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless [page 100] and
lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there),
I stood between you and the devils and fought them and contended with
them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to
retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as
he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my
determined opposition to them, 'I never said anything against you!' I
replied to him thus: 'It matters not to me whether you have or have
not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ
depart!' He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the
scene of devils for the time." D.H.C. 2:503. "Life of Heber C.
Kimball," pp. 130 131.)
Missionary Letter dated: Sept. 2, 1837
by Apostle Heber C.
Kimball From The Elder's Journal, pp. 4-7
A singular circumstance
occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's
journal, as he wrote it down. He commences as follows:
"Elder Russell was much troubled with evil spirits
and came into the room where Elder Kimball and myself were sleeping
and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil
spirit. I arose upon the bed and Br. Kimball got upon the floor
and I sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother
Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just before he had finished his
prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to
tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor
like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized
him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils
were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out of Brother
Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to
dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he
fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid
our hands on Elder Kimball and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name
of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so
as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully
and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the
water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and
foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day
or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy
us and prevent the truth from being declared in England." The
devil was mad because I was going to baptize and he wanted to destroy
me that I should not do those things the Lord sent me to do. We
had a great struggle to deliver ourselves from his hands.
Charles Perry Locke
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Perry
wrote:
>>Holey skivvies with masonic emblems on them...the
square and the compass.
>>Tools of the
craft.
Raymond wrote:
>Hmmmm... It's clear that you
are in attack mode.
Since when is mentioning a fact about
mormon undergarments an attack? How
can we reasonably discuss
facts if, when I mention them, you perceive it as
an
attack?
>But I would have you know that there major
difference between masonic
>rituals and LDS temple ceremony.
Although, you wouldn't know that would
>you.
I know
that there are differences...but it is the similarities that
interest me. As for what I do and do not know, I am neither a
freemason nor
a mormon. So, I have learned what I know by
reading about both. There may be
errors in what I have read. If
you see error in what I have read, and
stated, then please
correct me, but please give me references so I can
verify them
for myself.
>The teachings in the temple have nothing to
do with 'Tools of the craft.'
>You've been reading to much
anti-Mormon literature. You should spend more
>time learning
truth.
I did not say that the teachings in the temple have
anything to do with
'Tools of the craft'. I was referring
specifically to the square and compass
being 'tools of the
craft', where 'the craft' is freemasonry, and their
presence on
mormon underwear. Do you know anyting about freemasonry? Are you
a freemason?
The thing that interests me about the 'tools
of the craft' (freemasonry
being 'the craft') being embroidered
onto the mormon underwear is why JS
chose to use these symbols
of freemasonry on the underwear. Did he 'borrow'
the symbology
from freemasonry? Did he receive a revelation or vision that
he
should use these symbols on the underwear? Do you think that the use
of
these symbols by freemasons pre-dates JS's use of them on the
underwear? If
JS received revelation about using these, please
refer me to the document
that states the revelation so I can
read it for myself. I prefer not to read
some mormon's biased
commentary about it...I prefer the original
source.
Perry
----------
"Let your speech be
always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.......InnGlory.org
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