CM Did you just call JD a bickering little girl?
By the way JD has TYPOglycemia and I stil nevea predtnese!
Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
My advice to you is to stick to the subject - a judge of character may not be your long suit.There! Right there. That's what I mean. "Stop your bickering little girl, you're too simple to know if I am being genuine with you or not."JD, I'm not trying to change the subject, I'm just getting frustrated when I present ideas to you respectfully, and you respond to my questions with something like, "What do you think I meant when I said that?" Wouldn't that comment imply that you think I asked a stupid question? Perhaps it was a little young of me not to know what you meant there, I don't know. But the respect is not reciprocal, and I have provoked none of this.The reason I raise this issue instead of just not replying to your posts, is because I would really like both of us on this board to interact productively. Our presence here should be fruitful. But if you continue to condescend to me in your heart, then I don't wish to discuss things with you, because there is nothing I can do then to communicate effectively with you. I feel as though you're putting on a charade: you don't weigh my ideas for any truth, you jump to sarcastic remarks... JD, I do consider what you write, even if I don't end up agreeing with you, I will flip to Mat. 7 and see if that verse applies to a larger audiance than the hypocrites, and I stopped to think if we were all hypocrites, and so still applied to us. But you don't, JD. You just fire back defenses and rebuttals.Am I still misreading you? I really didn't wish to dwell on this, but if we don't approach one another with a proper attitude, how can we communicate effectively? Perhaps I will become sarcastic and defensive after becoming a long-time member of TT, but right now I am still new and still hopeful of seeing some good discussions.Blessings,ChristinePS- And I didn't know whether or not I should mention this, but... isn't it "strong suit?"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:JD wrote:What do you think the difference is?I don't know, JD! That's why I asked! If I knew what you meant when you said that, I would not have asked you what you meant.Reconciliation: to bring together in love and friendship.Save : to move away from self destructive behavior.I'm getting frustrated here, and I have to ask: why the condescention? It's mean and unproductive. My asking you what you think is the very opposite of condenscention. And not a bit of meanness. My advice to you is to stick to the subject - a judge of character may not be your long suit. It's makes communication difficult, and causes me to wonder if you approach this message board with the intention to really listen to others. Do you? More so than you know.Have I misread you here? I hope I have. But your comments seem patronizing, and it's difficult for me to respond when I feel like you are sarcastically toying with me. It feels like it is wasting my time to respond.You are your father's girl. What you see is caution, on my part -- not condescention.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation
JD wrote: >I believe that reconciliation has occurred for all mankind. Wait. Huh? I'm not sure I understand how you distinguish between reconciled and saved. What do you mean by reconciled?What do you think the difference is? > My statement, once again, was if God is the one who > does the saving, something you may or may not > believe , the clear implication is that I do not > know what you believe on that subject. Question: Would I be saved if I didn't beleive "God is the one who does the saving"?I have no idea>> When I wrote of an arrogant pretence, above, do you > think I spoke of that knowledge critical to being a > witness, or do you suppose my comments had more to > do with the judgment of God relating to eternal > destiny? I think both examples of knowledge are directly related. When the OT prohets warned an unrighteous Israel, they knew the mind of God to tell the Israelites that they were in big spiritual trouble. In Amos 5:18, he says, "Woe to you that desire the Day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light." He is telling the people of Israel that the Day of the Lord will be a day of justice and judgement, two things the Israelites do not want to encounter, since they practice evil. He was telling them that they were not saved.There is nothing revelatory in Deegan's judgment, or yours Equally, we are granted access to the mind of God when we act as ambassadors, because we must not portray Him as someone He is not. We must be able to discern what is sinful, and teach others to discern and hate the same, just as we must be able to discern when good fruit is produced and when thorns are produced. When thorns are produced, God promises that he will reject and burn that plant (Heb. 6:8).You speak as if we need help to figure out what is sinful. Sin is anything that, left to its own, will result in our personal destruction.You see, this knowledge isn't used to condemn anyone or kick anyone out of the Christian Club. But Revelations is clear about what will happen to the Lukewarm. That's what makes the issue of whether or not someone is saved a relevant issue. God wouldn't intend for us to remain ignorant about identifying thorns, because it's not too late. I don't know if you're unsaved, JD. But with the Spirit, we can recognize bad doctrine and attempt to answer it. I say all of this very respectfully.Depends on what you mean by "bad doctrine." An example, please. So, doesn't 2 Cor. 2:15-16 resolve the matter?If you includes the likes of II Co 3:6, yes. > Spiritually, there is only > one judge -- and Deegan is not the guy. Neither > are you. Right, I whole-heartedly agree. The messenger should never be confused with the Master. > When we are told not to judge, what do > you think that means? Well, Jesus tells us in Mat. 7 not to judge and to be a hypocrite. But He also offers a solution: 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Cast out the beam in your own eye, then assist your brother with his mote problem. Jesus is saying not to be hypocritical in your judging, which is hateful to God. Judging is not ungodly, however. I would normallycopy and paste 1 Cor. 2:15-16 here, but you've already read it recently. I beleive that verse still applies to our situation.You miss the point. Jesus warns against harshness of judgment. Sin in some form is always there."If we say that we are not possessing sin, we deceive ourselves and are without truth" (I Jo 1) Blessings, Christine --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > JD wrote: > >More specifically, if God is the one who does the > saving, something you may or may not believe, why > would we even think to ask such a question? > > But of course you have an opinion on the matter. > Actually I do not. I believe that reconciliation > has occurred for all mankind. Who is "saved" and > "lost" of those reconciled is not something anyone > knows. You said, "you have no clue as to who is > saved," which suggests that you interpret Kevin's > opinion of Salvation as a wrong opinion. Yes, and > thank God Kevin does not know. I was just asking > why you said that. With this response, is my > opinion clear? > > And of course I believe God is the one who does the > saving. I'm afraid to ask, but now I wonder why you > imply that I don't. No problem asking. You're a > college girl -- used to reading and comprehending. > Bias is something that gets in the way of successful > communication much more often than we admit. My > statement, once again, was if God is the one who > does the saving, something you may or may not > believe , the clear implication is that I do not > know what you believe on that subject -- in view of > the fact that this is actually what I wrote. > > 1 Cor. 2: 15-16 --But he that is spiritual judgeth > all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For > who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may > instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. > > He that is spiritual judgeth all things. As > spiritual men and women we aren't blind and deaf, we > have discerning eyes and ears. We have the Spirit, > whereby we have the mind of Christ. Now, we aren't > greater than our Master, we don't instruct Him, but > as a child of God I am granted access to the mind of > Christ. > > >It is His decision and only the most arrogant would > pretend to know His mind in these matters. > > How can we be witnesses and ambassadors if we don't > know the Master's mind? > > When I wrote of an arrogant pretence, above, do you > think I spoke of that knowledge critical to being a > witness, or do you suppose my comments had more to > do with the judgment of God relating to eternal > destiny? Kevin Deegan has decided that neither I > nor Caroline are saved when he has no clue as to the > final destiny of any particular individual -- > except himself, of course. > > > Hebrews 10: 22-24 --Let us draw near with a true > heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts > sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies > washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the > profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is > faithful that promised;) And let us consider one > another to provoke unto love and to good works. > > Arrogant? Well, we are to draw near in the full > assurance of faith, if you want to call that > arrogant. Your words, here, have nothing at all to > do with what I wrote. My question to you is, how > can we consider one another and provoke each other > unto love and good works without discernment of the > Master's mind and His business? I will be happy to > discuss this with you as soon as we are finished > discussing the fantasy that one can know of the > eternal destiny of another. I believe there are > two types of judgment, at least. One is the > judgment of guilt or innocence -- we are fully > capable to make this determination. A second > area of judgment has to do with our sentence. In > the secular courts, only the judge (in a criminal > trial) can actually pass sentence. The jury > determines guilt or innocence -- the judge > determines sentence. Spiritually, there is only > one judge -- and Deegan is not the guy. Neither > are you. When we are told not to judge, what do > you think that means? And I've chosen a rather > tame example > of "considering one another." What about needing to > know the Master's mind when expelling a brother in > sin from the church? Or in Mat. 18 when we rebuke a > brother? Or what about John 20:23 when Jesus tells > us that God will use us to let people know their > sins are forgiven them? > > > Blessings, > > Christine > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > The question should be, "How do you know if someone > is lost when they claim the name, give diligence to > the study of the written word, practice acts of > faith and dedicate their whole life to God;" a > second question should be, "What gives one the > right to judge another saint when their life is no > better than the one they criticize (Rom 2:1)?" > > More specifically, if God is the one who does the > saving, something you may or may not believe, why > would we even think to ask such a question? It is > His decision and only the most arrogant would > pretend to know His mind in these matters. > > JD > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:10:50 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation > > > knpraise wrote: > >How in the world can someone like > >you (and those who are your bend the knee > supporters) even hope to truly save the lost when > >you have no clue as to who is saved? > > How do we know if someone is saved? I ask this > sincerely. > > Blessings, > > Christine > > PS- Feel free to ignore me if this is opening a can > of worms or an otherwise stale topic, but I'm new to > this board and genuinely curious, specifically about > your comment, knpraise. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > You are so off base, Kevin. To imagine that one as > judgmental as you would think > yourself to be accomplishing the work of the Lord > with the kind of trash that rolls off > your lips as natural as puss from an open sore is > astounding. How in the world can someone like > you (and those who are your bend the knee > supporters) even hope to truly save the lost when > you > you have no clue as to who is saved? You are the > perfect reason why there are no churches in the > Central Valley who would even pretend to consider > supporting a "street preacher." Admittedly, > they (the SP) are not all bad, but you certainly > give them no help. Too bad you don't work for a > living -- it would go a long way to keeping you > off the street. Fortunately for you, it is not > your effort that brings you reconciliation > > JD > > > > > Kevin shares from the heart to Caroline: > Well so long, I really do hope you get saved! > > Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well folks, it's been mostly fun but I've gotta go. > I'm spending too much > time here and it's not good since I have to clean up > my condo, put it on the > market and move in a few short weeks. Things are > just too busy. So I'll bid > you all a fond farewell. > > JD, Bill, it's been a real pleasure getting to know > you. > Judy, Izzy, David take care of yourselves. > There are several others here that I didn't talk to > as much mostly because > of time constraints. I hope things go well for you > and yours. > Kevin, thanks for all the exchanges. You've > sharpened me as iron sharpens > iron. From now on, I won't be afraid to tangle with > any === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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