I emailed Raymond to ask him when we would see him again on TT and I don't
think he would mind me sharing wth all that he replied, "I don't have time
to keep up with all of the email. I also tired of re-answering questions,
again and again, that I've already answered." I can understand his
frustration! That is the nature of TT.
Perry
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 05:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
WHAT HAPPENED to RAYMOND??????????
He did not even say BYE.
Bothoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Terry--
I took the time to explain to you what my Church teaches on this subject.
Please take the time to explain what you believe on this subject.
--Raymond
Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bothoms wrote:
Hi Terry�
I�m glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to
these questions. If you don�t mind, I�d like to answer these questions one
at a time.
DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS?
To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most
non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We
also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived
before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of
our spirits.
"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we
gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the
Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9)
"Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a)
"One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a)
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall
return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7)
Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as
Jehovah in the OT, was our Father�s firstborn.
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith,
And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6)
In mortality, Jesus would be God�s Only Begotten.
Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born.
"Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in
the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I
sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer
1:4-5)
Our Father presented a plan to us.
"And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and
they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they
are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so
shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
For behold, this is my work and my glory�to bring to pass the immortality
and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40)
While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories
are taken away and we walk by faith.
"There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any
remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after."
(Eccl 1:11)
"And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto
those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we
will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may
dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things
whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their
first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate
shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first
estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon
their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26)
Lucifer seeks power.
"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt
my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the
congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of
the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14)
A Savior is Chosen.
"And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast
commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the
beginning, and he came before me, saying�Behold, here am I, send me, I will
be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost,
and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my
Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto
me�Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore,
because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of
man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give
unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that
he should be cast down;..." (Moses 4:1-3)
"And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son
of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send
me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and
kept not his first estate; and at that day, many followed after him." (Abr
4:27-28)
War in Heaven.
"And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the
dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither
was their pace found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out,
that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole
world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with
him." (Rev 12:7-9)
Lucifer is cast out.
"And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose
that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from
heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil
before God. And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable
forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind." (2Ne 2:17-18a)
"... for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my
power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me
because of their agency; and they were thrust down, and thus came the devil
and his angels;..." (D&C 29:36b-37)
"And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in
authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten
Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was
thrust down from the presence of God and the Son, and was called Perdition,
for the heavens wept over him�he was Lucifer, a son of the morning. And we
beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!" (D&C
76:25-27)
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own
habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the
judgment of the great day." (Jude 1:6)
Lucifer rebelled and was cast out! He has lost his inheritance! He was once
a son of God and our brother, but that was before. There is no longer any
relationship! He has become Satan. He is an enemy to us and to God!!
Jesus during His mortal ministry recalled the event.
"And he [Jesus] said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from
heaven." (Luke 10:18)
�Raymond
I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who
mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a
lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even
sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I
cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those
close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real
scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer
list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.
Too bad. I wish you could see.
Terry
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