Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

[Blainerb473]

Blaine:  I first got onto astrology in, I believe 1969, when a co-teacher I worked with taught me a lot of different things, mostly related to teaching, but one side benefit was astrology.  He was a descendant of Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens), famous author, and was just about as colorful as Twain.  His sun-sign was Leo.  He was very warm and friendly, as Leos often are.  I thought him to be a little pushy sometimes, wanting everything to run his way or no way, also often seen in Leos.  Of course, he considered himself just a natural leader of men, as many Leos also see themselves (Napoleon was a Leo, btw).  Anyway, I began a more intense investigation of the subject, expecting actually to find no consistencies.  What I actually found, however, was a huge surprise.   The truth is, there are many regularities in how people relate to one another in astrology.  (A striking example is the relationship between Bill Clinton and his girlfriend, Monica--both had their suns in Leo and moons in Taurus--and then there were Adolf Hitler and  Sadam Hussein, both with sun in Taurus and moon in Capricorn)  Before I get too far into it, however, I have to say I do not in any way believe stars CAUSE behavior.  They may predict it to a certain extent, but even there, one must always take into account the simple principle of choice--people may choose what they do or say.  On the other hand, I also believe the MASTER PLAN  of God is, if we were able to read it, written indelibly in the stars.  There are many who think they can read it, many more who pretend to be able to do so, and a few who  reach a small degree of competancy in doing so.  It is, I believe, a subject worthy of serious investigation, but one must keep in mind that there is no Bible for astrology, or in other words, no absolute foundation to go to for settling individual differences of opinion as to what this or that may mean.  There is a lot of tradition, and there seems to be some agreement on how to set up a horoscope, and read it, but as I said, and I need to emphasize, nothing ABSOLUTE.  Yet, once you get into it, you definitely begin to notice regularities.  In school situations, two of the fire signs, Leo and Aries,  are commonly more difficult kids to handle.  They are enthusiastic about almost everything they do.  Of the two, Aries is definitely more headstrong and independant, often assuming they are never wrong (the Martha Stuart syndrome).  But if a kid challenges the teacher for domination of the classroom, it is usually a Leo.  Cancer kids are usually well-socialized, as is Pisces, and these two usually relate to one another well.   The third water sign, Scorpio, is often a bundle of anger, but still he knows what he needs to do--just doesn't always want to do it.  Scorpios also seem to favor Cancer-born partners. Cancers and Scorpios often seem to end up marrying.   Quite a few Scorpios seem to me to lean toward being socio-pathic--stealing, lying, etc.  The earth signs, Virgo, Capricorn, and Taurus, are the most likely to be well-socialized, especially Virgos. But  there is always an exception to the rule.  Billy-the-Kid was a Virgo.  One has to remember that the sun-sign is only part of the picture.  There is also the moon sign, the Mars sign, the Jupiter sign, etc., along with the angles these planets form to one another and to the sun and moon.  The best horoscope is one based upon the exact time and location of one's birth.   I once read that Sigmund Freud would not take a patient unless he had this information.  I am now running off at the keyboard, so will hope that what I have said answers your questions--and DaveH is right--none of this has to do with Mormonism,  except as a Mormon, I believe we all make choices, and although the ones we make may be strongly influenced by our heredity and upbringing, it was all written in the stars long before we were born.  God knows all, past and present,  including the choices each of us will make in the future.          In a message dated 5/26/2005 12:32:44 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: David Miller wrote: Blaine wrote: ... it came through to me that she was one of my immediate ancestors, a woman born in Norway, who had been active in converting her husband and family to Mormonism, and that she was there to show her approval of what we were in process of doing. Blaine, I appreciate you sharing experiences like this. While I might have a different understanding of what events like these are all about, it gives me insight into a side of Mormonism that I might not otherwise have. Question for Dave Hansen: Dave, I have noticed over the years that Blaine has many mystical experiences like this one that he has shared, and that he is actively engaged in astrology. I have never seen you share of such experiences. I am curious about how you perceive Blaine's reports like this one. Do you readily accept them as stated and interpreted? DAVEH:  Yeah.......Pretty much so.  Such experiences are not uncommon in Mormonism.  That however does not necessarily mean that each and every one of them is accurately reported.  Nor would I state for a fact that every such experience is proof of what I believe.  I know of one personal example where an old friend (whose memory is worse than mine) drew an incorrect conclusion based on mistaken identity and a lack of background knowledge. How many in Mormonism do you know who embrace astrology and the kind of mysticism that Blaine does? DAVEH:  This may surprise you, but Blaine is the first LDS person I can recall to make such claims.  If there are others, but I've not found them to be open with their beliefs.  You and I do know one former LDS TTer who is in what might be called a fringe area though....remote viewing.  Golly....TT does seem to attract the weirdos, like Paul Smith, Blaine and me, eh!  In all my years (nearly a half century now) of being a Mormon, I don't think I've seen such peculiar diversity in the LDS people I've known!     Now...before you think that I am decrying Blaine's astro-beliefs.....perhaps there is something to consider there.  I'm not well versed in such fields, but I suspect there are some Biblical comments that might suggest a relationship to out of this world happenings that influence our lives here in mortality.   Blaine can probably fill you in on that, if you want to ask him. Do you, Dave, accept astrology too? DAVEH:  No.  But that doesn't mean I outright reject it either.  Critics of Christianity might find a lot of mysticism and astrology in what many TTers believe.  Yet I bet most TTers would ascribe stereotypical astrologers to be under the influence of Satan....which is pretty much the way I lean.  Perhaps the truth falls somewhere between the two extremes. I guess I am trying to understand the kind of diversity in Mormonism in regards to present day mysticism. DAVEH:  I'd say Blaine is probably not your average Mormon when it comes to accepting astrology.  But maybe I am judging too swiftly, as I really don't know much more about his beliefs in that regard than what you and I've seen in his posts.  Perhaps he'll elaborate..........though I will not encourage him to do so, as it will just give a few other TTers added incentive to criticize. Peace be with you. David Miller.