John,
I have to agree. I otherwise might not agree, but I met a man who came
with his wfe to a Bible study I was in some years ago. He was raised in a
home in which his mother and father were involved in drugs from before he
was born. He would go with them to make buys, and witness them use the drugs
for as long as he could rememeber. He was never taught that this was wrong.
so he grew up pretty much seeing this as normal, and at a very early age
beginning to do the same. He was in his early 30's when I met him, and had
already spent considerable time in prison for various drug related offenses.
From his testamony, and his apparent love for the Lord,, I believe that
he was in the fold, but occasionally had times of relapse when he would get
drawn back in to the drug culture. Last I heard he was doing hard time at
Corcoran Pen. I have never stop believing that he was and still is saved
continues in a state of salvation through God's grace, although he is unable
to totally kick the habits he grew up with as being normal. Who knows, but
what God may be using him in some way I do not understand, perhaps to reach
men inside the prison walls that would not otherwise hear the gospel.
Perry
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:02:00 -0400
Do you understand that I believe that "event sin" can be stop immediately
but other types of sin cannot? There are addictions, character failures
such as pride and selfishness that are the foundation for other sin AND are
listed as sin (selfishness is a sin but it is not an event). There are
sins of omission when we should be doing something and we choose not to.
Some sins stop -- but others only decrease in influence. Some may never
be completely gone. It is my opinion that there is absolutely no
alternative to this -- that those who disagree share a much narrower
definition of sin than I - and I believe I have a sound biblical
argument for my point of view, not to mention the practical argument.
Much of nearly every letter saved for us in the NT scriptures contains
encouragement to the saints regarding the continuing battle against sin
----- letters written to those who are in the family of God.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:36:33 -0500
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
The point that I was trying to get you to see for yourself is that though
growth as a Christian is a continuous thing, sin stops when we die to self.
My old self cursed and hated with the best of them. I drank from two to
four six packs a day. I lusted in my heart. I dipped snuff and defiled my
body. But when I died to self, that stuff went, and it did not go
gradually. When Jesus says, "You are forgiven. Go and sin no more", only
the most selfish persons could consider what Christ did for them and not
respond in obedience.
I know that. It is a fact. I have never been more certain of anything
in my life.
Terry
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, Terry. And that is all that I am saying, here. sin is sin -- but
what IS sin? As long as we have this idea that it is a violation of the
law, we will never be able to really help the people we are called to
help. We HAVE been given the ministry of reconciliation.
For the past 4 weeks, my left knee has been out of action. An operation
is soon in the offing. But during this period, I have had to continue to
work. About six hours or so is all I can stand. What has happened is
this: the surrounding muscle structure has increased and the knee is
becoming serviceable on its own -- painful as that might be. ditto
with those who are dealing with their besetting sin (and we all have
them). Their lives are not defined by a single area of concern. No one
is. I know "management of sin" might sound repulsive, a doctrine of
license. But it really is not. Management is a RECOVERY tool --
not a teaching that encourages sin. Sin Management teaches the addict to
postpone her addictive behavior for a specified time -- and this time
is increased. Fat people (and I suspect there are more fat people on
this forum than one would suppose) victimize themselves with the addiction
of gluttony. Sin Management teaches them that this is destructive
behavior (ala "sin") and encour
ages them to modify or postpone their eating . Meanwhile, we emphasize
the good and healthy aspects of their lives with God.
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:19:18 -0500
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Back to an issue of substance.
Law and faith
It is amazing to me that those who are clearly legalists in the crowd argue
for the banishment of an individual based upon only one consideration of
sin. What I mean is this -- if you have one who is addicted to heroin
and (of course) continues to "use,' he is withdrawn from despite the
possibility other areas of his life, spiritually, are improving. Part of
the curse of the law is that one who violates a speeding law is just as
guilty as one who murders a child. Guilt is guilt.
Under grace through faith, a heroin addict can be given hope because his
life is not judged by that single issue. And I am talking about a
"judgment" that is , in reality, the reasonable conclusion of his conduct.
If he manages his addiction (and in the beginning of a recovery process,
this may be all that he can do with addiction) and gives equal attention to
filling himself up with God in the Word, with the Relationship, in
continued fellowship (someone has to stop telling to leave) prayer and
communion, he can be saved from the ravages of his continuing sin.
Personal destruction does not need to be the final consequence. Praise
the Lord.
JD
================================================================
Seems that I remember someone once asking, "What fellowship has light with
darkness?"
"course, I could be wrong. Possibly continuous sin should be excused for
any number of reasons. Only, of course, until Jesus gradually gives them
the power to overcome.
Terry
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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