On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:42:03 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It occurs to me in studying James, chapters 1 and 2, that his argument for justification by works (James 2:24) has everything to do with benevolent ministries.To begin with James did not make any such argument JD. James never addresses "justification" - He is writing about normal christianity which is walking the talk."You see that man is justified by works and not by faith alone (james 2:24)" How does this work with your wording above?No problem JD, the word "justified" in James 2:24 is not connected with any long doctrine of "justification" - it simply means what it says - "justified or shown to be righteous" .. Just like the tree that is known by it's fruit or the child who is known by his deeds.We can conclude from the reading of James that "pure and undefiled religion" is something other than evangelism. It is not enough to preach to the lost in the Congo or on the streets of North Hollywood. If our ministry in the Word does not include a ministry that goes to the physical needs of those within our sphere of influence, we are involved in a perverted gospel. That is what James is talking about when he speaks of works.Wait just one minute. James is saying that talk without corresponding actions is "DEAD" What is your point? James is talking about benelence. You disagree?Yes I disagree. James is not talking about the "benevolence ministry" he is coming against hypocrisy and self deception.He does not conflict with Paul when Paul is heard preaching a justification by faith APART from works (obedience) to the Law.This is what your doctrine tells you that Paul was preaching, it has nothing to do with reality. You take the book of Romans and turn it into a doctrinal treatise that dismisses God's moral law negating the rest of the New Testament. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 9:21 "Being NOT without law to God but under the law to Christ. And in Romans 3:21 "Do we make void the law through faith, God forbid WE ESTABLISH the law" and Romans 2:13 "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified" with which James concurs in his epistle - James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass..."Not at all. for when James speaks of works, he has in mind benevolent activity. Seeing needs, looking for needs and fulfilling them.No he doesn't JD. James has in mind obedience to God's moral law which is the same as Christ's Royal Law when he speaks of "works" which obedience would include loving ones neighbor as we love ourselves.It was Christ who said "love your neighbor ...." A wicked perversion of that imperative is the notion that we can fulfill that admonition apart from being involved in lives of those in need. Nearly all of Christ's miracles were in fulfillment of this very issue -- the care and keeping of those within His realm of influence.You mean he didn't go minister or intercede for those in the Congo?So, what is your teaching about works of benevolence (see James 1:27 and 2:16) and the relationship those works have to our faith?My teaching is that we should follow the Lamb "withersoever He goeth" and that we should do what He tells us to do because "to obey is better than sacrifice and/or benevolence ministry"Paul agrees in Eph 2:10 when he teaches us that we were CREATED in Christ Jesus for good works. In I Pet 2:12, that apostle teaches us that the strongest point of our Godly manifestation to the world is our good works. When they despise us for what we say, they will see our good works and glorify God.Only we reinterpret "good works" to be what money and worldly goods can do for ppl. This is not the same as the works done by Jesus or the apostles who said "silver and gold have I none, but such as I have give I thee" We don't have what they had because our doctrines have taught us to turn aside from God's Law so that even our prayer is abomination and we are not cleansed from our filth.Does anyone know where it says "out do one another in good works" or something to that effect? JDNo, the competitive spirit is an antiChrist spirit; we are to prefer our brother/sister, let them excel. jtI am pretty sure it is there. There is good competition and competition that can get out of hand. JdProbably Heb 10:24 "Let us consider one another to provoke (stir up) unto love and to good works..." I wouldn't say it is trying to outdo the other.
