Who was talking about TT?
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH: Have you ever wondered why there are more TT lurkers than posters? And....have you ever pondered why most folks who sign up, don't hang around? If you think it is their lack of faith.....I think you are deluding yourself again, Kevin.
Kevin Deegan wrote:I can respond to Terry's questions without having my beliefs denigrated by one who is openly antagonistic to my beliefs.Many have had their beliefs denigrated. If they really believe that should not stop them from supporting those beliefs publicly. Those that go MUM, probably do not hold dearly to those beliefs, if a little criticism can stop them!
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DaveH makes a good point here, Perry. Care to explain yourself?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Hansen"
To:
Sent: June 20, 2005 00:41
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Seeming inconsistancy
> DAVEH: Well, you have put yourself in a precarious position, Perry. On
> one hand you criticize me for explaining what I believe when asked. And
> when I do directly such questions, you often times berate
> them.....leaving me little reason to share my beliefs with you.
>
> In an apparent order to discredit my explanations you try to
> re-explain what I believe to other TTers, in an attempt to make it sound
> goofy, as Terry put it. Why do you not instead simply tell Terry to ask
> me about specific beliefs that you presume to be LDS doctrines. Then
&g t; you won't have to qualify your possible ignorance for not being positive
> about them, and I can respond to Terry's questions without having my
> beliefs denigrated by one who is openly antagonistic to my beliefs.
>
> Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > This is what I have learned. I believe it to be so, but I may not
> > have all accurately stated all of the details. You often tell me I am
> > wrong, that I don't understand it as a mormon would, and I should ask
> > a mormon if I want to know what mormons believe. I did as you
> > requested, but instead of correcting me, if indeed I have erred, you
> > try to make a big deal out of it. If I have not erred, no foul? If I
> > have, then correct me.
> >
> > Perry
> >
> >> From: Dave Hansen
> >> Reply-To: [email protected]
> & gt;> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Seeming inconsistancy
> >> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 19:52:19 -0700
> >>
> >> * I am not positive about a couple of them*
> >>
> >> DAVEH: Then why would you try to teach somebody else something you
> >> are not sure about, Perry? Do you think passing on false or
> >> misunderstood information helps others understand truth?
> >>
> >> Charles Perry Locke wrote:
> >>
> >>> Terry, it is a lot more convoluted that you are imagining. Here are
> >>> perhaps a couple of points that have not been revealed to you.* I am
> >>> not positive about a couple of them*, so Dave, feel free to correct
> >>> me if I understand this incorrectly. (If you don't, I am sure Blaine
> >>> will :-)
> >>>
> >>> - they will be able to have multiple wives, maybe thousands, and a
> >>> man can be sealed to more than one woman on earth, and more women
> >>> can seal themselves to them after they have died.
> >>>
> >>> - they will procreate with these wives to populate their own
> >>> planets, just like their current god did with his thousands of
> >>> spirit wives to produce the offspring of the earth, meaning you,
> >>> Terry, were first a spiritual offspring, and brother of satan and
> >>> jesus, of the mormon god and one of thousands of Mrs. gods, and then
> >>> were inserted into a baby at some point in your human existence,
> >>>
> >>> - unmarried women on earth can seal themselves to deceased mormon
> >>> men (or at least to one).
> >>>
> >>> - mormon women must be called from the graves by the man to whom
> >>> they are sealed if they expect to get resurrected to the third
> >>> heaven, provided they have fulfilled all of the reauired works,
> >>> called temple ordnances.
> >>>
> >>> Amusing anecdote: My mother-in-law, who is a mormon, became one long
> >>> after she had divorced my father-in-law (and both of these events
> >>> were long before I met either one of them). He knows nothing about
> >>> mormonism, but found out from a friend that if a man and woman are
> >>> sealed on earth, they live together eternally after death. Once he
> >>> found this out he drove over to her house yelling at her that she
> >>> better not seal herself to him because he did not want to spend the
> >>> rest of eternity with her!
> >>>
> >>> Perry
> >>>< BR>> >>>> From: Dave Hansen
> >>>> Reply-To: [email protected]
> >>>> To: [email protected]
> >>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Seeming inconsistancy
> >>>> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:48:58 -0700
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Terry Clifton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I understand your answer, Dave, but I have problems with it. What
> >>>>> brought about this comment by Jesus was the possibility of more
> >>>>> than one wife here on earth. If your first wife dies, you are
> >>>>> free to take another. We know that God's plan for man has always
> >>>>> been one man for one woman for life.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ;> DAVEH: Upon what basis do you draw that conclusion, Terry? As you
> >>>> must know, many of the Lord's prophets had more than one wife. Do
> >>>> you think his servants, the prophets, did not understand God's plan?
> >>>>
> >>>>> If that is His desire here, then it would be His desire in Heaven,
> >>>>> *if *there were marriages in Heaven. That creates a problem for
> >>>>> the man that has married two or more women who preceeded him in
> >>>>> death. The problem being, who would be the one wife?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> DAVEH: Had they been sealed (bound) on earth by somebody who had
> >>>> the keys as did Peter (Mt 16:19), all would have been sealed
> >>>> (bound) in heaven.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Because of this, Jesus has proclaimed that there will be no
> >>>>> marriage in Heaven,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> DAVEH: Read vs 30 again.........
> >>>>
> >>>> *For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in
> >>>> marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.*
> >>>>
> >>>> .......I would understand that to mean marriage will not take place
> >>>> in heaven. It does not say that marriage would not exist in
> >>>> heaven. I think you are reading something into Scripture that it
> >>>> does not say, Terry.
> >>>>
> >>>>> except the marriage of the Church to the Lamb, the King, Jesus
> >>>>> Himself. It solves the problem of multiple marriages and it
> >>>& gt;> solves the problem of what to do with a believer whose spouse has
> >>>>> gone to Hell while the believer entered Heaven. No husband? No
> >>>>> problem. We are married to the Lord.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> DAVEH: Seems to me that literally taking it the way you are, it
> >>>> would create another major problem. Do you want to be married to a
> >>>> male, Terry? Why do many Christians fight tooth and nail against
> >>>> same sex marriage in this life, only to believe they are going to
> >>>> be married to a same sex partner after this life? Seems pretty
> >>>> screwy to me, unless one views it from my perspective.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think you misunderstand what the Bible teaches concerning this.
> >>>>> Your view s imply presents too many obstacles to be workable.
> >>>>>
> >>>> DAVEH: It works for me, Terry. If God had no problem with
> >>>> polygamous marriages in the OT, I don't argue that marriage is only
> >>>> for one man/woman. If the Lord tells us we can seal up things here
> >>>> on earth that will last past the barrier we call death, I feel no
> >>>> reason to doubt that can apply to marriage and hesitate to deny the
> >>>> power of God grant us that power.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a Mormon, I believe families can be forever. It is a main
> >>>> doctrine of our Church. When Protestants (and some TTers) tell me
> >>>> that sexual identity does not exist in heaven, and that loving
> >>>> family relationships end upon death, I've got to wonder why God
> >>>> b rought us to earth, gave us the the challenge of having a loving
> >>>> and secure family only to rip it all apart before we enter
> >>>> heaven. Doesn't make sense to me.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for your thoughts though.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> DAVEH: You are welcome, Terry.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Terry
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave Hansen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> DAVEH: And good afternoon to you, Brother Terry! :-)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Let me quote vs 30......
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in
> >>>>>> marriag e, but are as the angels of God in heaven.*
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ........Note that he is talking about during/after the
> >>>>>> resurrection period, folks will will not have the opportunity to
> >>>>>> get married. It does not address those who have been married and
> >>>>>> sealed in mortality for eternity. That may not make much sense,
> >>>>>> so let me elaborate a bit.....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Terry....when you were married, did the minister use language
> >>>>>> similar to the familiar "to death do you part" that is commonly
> >>>>>> used in many Christian marriages? If so, does that seem to you
> >>>>>> to be a divorce clause of sorts? IOW, upon your spouse's demise,
> >>>>>> do you not become unma rried, and are thereby eligible to marry
> >>>>>> again if you so choose? Assuming you've been nodding your head
> >>>>>> in agreement with me so far, then your earthly marriage was for
> >>>>>> time only, and not applicable to life after death....agreed?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From my LDS perspective, marriages can be of two
> >>>>>> types....*time only while in mortality*, as I discussed above and
> >>>>>> secondly for *time and eternity,* meaning those who enter into
> >>>>>> such a covenant are sealed together beyond death. Their
> >>>>>> matrimonial relationship does not end upon the death of either
> >>>>>> spouse, but continues to be recognized beyond the veil of death.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We believ e that the Lord gave power to some of his servants
> >>>>>> (like Peter) to form eternal unions on earth........
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and
> >>>>>> whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and
> >>>>>> whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
> >>>>>> * Mt 16:19
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ......that will be recognized in heaven and will extend beyond
> >>>>>> the barrier we call death. As Jesus was explaining in the
> >>>>>> passages you mentioned, such sealings won't be in effect in
> >>>>>> heaven if they don't first happen on earth.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Does that answer your question, Terry?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Note to Perry: Does my above explanation draw another
> >>>>>> criticism for preaching Mormonism?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Terry Clifton wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Good morning, mister Hansen. I have a serious request. Can you
> >>>>>>> explain to me how Mormons will have wives in Heaven when Jesus
> >>>>>>> plainly teaches in Matt 22:29-33 that there will be no marriages
> >>>>>>> in Heaven, no husbands and wives?
> >>>>>>> Thank you.
> >>>>>>> Terry
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dave Hansen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.langlitz.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ; If you wish to receive
> things I find interesting,
> I maintain six email lists...
> JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
> STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
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