Conventional "wisdom argues that when the word "baptizo" is used without any other definition, it should be considered to be "water baptism" because that would be the understanding of the Jewish mind. Well, so much for conventional wisdom. You , my friend, have just been elevated to the rank of Theologian by the Bishop of California. You can thank me later. One of the better exegetical "discoveries" of recent memory. Out of the ashes ................. almost an original idea, hey Lance??
First class on this one !!!!!!!!!!! Thank you.
John Smithson
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Perry Locke <cpl2602@hotmail.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:25:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who is he?
Well, late the other night I was studying mark 16:14-20. My purpose was to contrast it with Romans 10:9-10. I wanted to make sure I understood it correctly. I was reading it over the second or third time when, without warning my perspective shifted, and I saw the passage entirely differently than I did when I began reading it. I had traditionally interpreted "he" as mankind", and "baptised" as water baptism.
Many use verse 16 as a prooftext that water baptism is necessary for salvation, and many use it as a prooftext that when one is saved and baptised, one recvieves the fruit of the spirit. With my new insight, those two concepts are no longer a question. They are not disproven, either, but these verses no long er will support them as prooftexts of those ideas.
As I read the verses, I focused on one of the main subjects of the passage. Namely the unbelief of the 11 as expressed in v14. Can you believe that? All that they had been through with Jesus, and some still had unbelief. Jesus was about to entrust these men with spreading the gospel and they still had unbelief! What if they still had not believed at pentecost?
As I read it became apparent to me that while jesus was telling them their commission to go into the world and preach the gospel. But, in verse 16 he continues with his admonition, by 1) telling them that they would be baptised (by the Holy Spirit), and what their state would be IF they still unbeleived at that time!
In verse 17 he goes on to say that those that believed would receive gifts to be used in spreading the gospel, and this is confirmed in verse 20, which confirms that as they went out they had these gifts.
This is easily discerned in these verses (14-20) if, as you read it, you allow every pronoun (he, them, they) to refer to the 11 (those to whom this whole passage applies), and allow that the baptism he speaks of is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurred at pentecost.
Perry
>From: Terry Clifton <wabbits1234@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who is he?
&g t;Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:53:56 -0500
>
>Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>
>>John, thanks for responding. Jesus indeed spoke v. 16, but to whom was >>Christ referring when he used "He"?
>
>=====================================================================
>My opinion, Perry, without a lot of pondering, based on what I see in the >NKJV. "He" is generic for any saint, any saved person who is walking the >walk, the narrow path that results in salvation for those that endure to >the end. It is in clear contrast to the next "he" in that verse who will be >condemned. I do not know the original word used here for baptized, but I >assume it means believers baptism, immersion in water in obedience to God's >command to show publicly that you have denied self and will now follow >Christ.
>Now lay it on us. What has God, the Holy Spirit shown you?
>Terry
> ;
>>
>>
>
>=
>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory .org
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