Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:42:18 -0700

For very much the same reasons  --  only, I would include " to add to or amend my understanding of the Word."     Same for you???????
 
JD 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:27:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

To fellowship with others who love and appreciate God and His Word
Why do you attend JD? 
 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:22:43 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why does Judy T attend BSF,  a teaching forum? 
 
Jd 
 

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I wouldn't assume anything Lance (dangerous practice) The "teaching forum" is God's Word KJV which is the ONLY safe place today. As the Church we are to be a "nation of kings and priests" and it is written that "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the honour of kings is to search out a matter" We are to be workmen that need not to be ashamed who rightly divide the word of truth.  Note: rc tradition has no part in the "word of truth" ... these are religious writings which stand or fall based upon whether they measure up; most are not much better than the writings of Joseph Smith.  jt
 
 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:27:23 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jt tells JD, along with the rest of us, that '(she) I believe(s) the way (she does) I do because (she) I see(s) it in the Word of God.'
 
Q:May one read OUT of the Word of God that which is not IN the Word of God to begin with?
 
Q:May we assume that attendance at some sort of teaching forum is, at least in part, for the purpose of knowing aright in order that we might live aright?
 
It is not my 'thoughts' nor my 'individual musings' that matter in the least JD.  I believe the way I do
because I see it in the Word of God.  But then this has never seemed to make much difference to you
so I am not surprised that you don't get it.   jt
 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:00:55 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Debbie writes:   Does she (JudyT)  have the same God? If she thinks the beginning of Jesus was the beginning of the Son, then no.  
 
This is precisely what i hear Judy saying.   Please correct me if I am wrong. 
 
But, alas, this was never my question.   God is sovereign.   He exists apart from our thoughts about Him. I just want someone to give me some insight on how to deal with what I perceive to be Judy's heresy.   How important are our individual musings about God and Christ?  There is not one person on this forum who agrees in total with anyone else. At what point do these disagreements rise to the level activity on our part.  At what point do we become exclusive in a thoughtful and order way?    
 
 
JD
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 22, 2005 11:16
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

May I respond? First, two cautions:
 
a) The wideness of God's mercy is a different question. God's mercy can be infinitely wide even though the gap between sketches that still qualify as the same Jesus cannot be. The effect of God's mercy is to reconcile people to himself (who may or may not have a true idea of Jesus), not to make all Jesuses the same.
 
b) It's a bit confusing to me to use the name Jesus (or Christ) in predicating the eternal Sonship. Having missed what went before, may I ask whether this might also be confusing to Judy? You can't get rid of the humanity of Jesus. Although Jesus the God-man has no end, and there is NOW no Son apart from him, he did have a beginning. Therefore it's possible for two people to believe the same things about Jesus while believing different things about before Jesus was conceived.
 
As to those essentials whose absence results in a different Jesus (since the conversation seems to aim at establishing this): I'm not certain, but I believe divinity must be one. If he is only Saviour without being God, then (among other consequences) salvation is reduced to fire insurance. The point of salvation is worship. Jesus is to be worshipped. If he is denied worship, the point of the story is denied, and it is a different story. Second, I believe his real and Jewish humanity is essential, since it is as our rep, and more specifically as the rep of Israel, that he has effected our reconciliation. A third essential is that he really died, was really raised, and really ascended--without that, the whole story falls apart too. If Judy worships Jesus as God, and believes that he is also a man, of the Jewish people, and that he died, rose, and ascended to effect our salvation, then I believe she has the same Jesus. Does she have the same God? If she thinks the beginning of Jesus was the beginning of the Son, then no.
 
You could follow each of these out to other things--for example, could Jesus be the chosen rep of Israel, the Christ, if he was from the tribe of Benjamin and not Judah? Well, I know my answer would be No, but I recognize that this is one level removed. 
 
Do you agree? I could, as always, be all wet.
 
D  
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:10 AM
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Belief

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
Sent: June 22, 2005 06:09
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

As Rush often says to his callers (in a very patronising manner which I don't intend herein) 'you've swerved into something that is utterly profound.' Speaking only for myself Judy, I believe that the answer to your question is 'YES AND IT IS NO'. As to our Mormon participants, I believe the answer is more likely to be an unequivocal 'YES'. How wide is 'THE WIDENESS OF GOD'S MERCY?' IFF, from God's perspective, Judy Taylor and David Miller, have misunderstood the matter of the 'eternal sonshiip' of the second Person of the Trinity and, IFF, when it arises in conversation, they teach it.........well.....shall we go on?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 22, 2005 05:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

Lance, in view of our discussion yesterday - would you say that you and I believe in a different Jesus?
Still waiting ... judyt
 
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:33:48 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Please Dave, read Perry's post of yesterday then, answer my question. Would you say, in lieu of Perry's 'list' that we (you and I) believe in a different Jesus? IMO Perry is quite correct in those distinctions he points out.

 
DAVEH:  No, I do not recall saying that.  However, I believe we all are viewing the same Jesus, but have different perspectives on what we see.  The Jesus I believe in the same one found in the Bible which is the same one you believe as you read about him in the Bible.  That does not mean we both view him the same way.  Does that make sense, Lance?

Lance Muir wrote:
Have you said that their's is a 'different' Jesus?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 21, 2005 00:55
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

DAVEH:   Logically, the onus is not upon me to define the Jesus I believe in, but rather it is on the person who suggests I don't believe in Jesus.  FTR....I have not said that the Jesus Kevin, you Perry or any other TTer believes in is a false Jesus. 

Lance Muir wrote:
DaveH says "Kevin, I believe in Jesus." IFF we are going to engage in a conversation that entails reality, then we have to continue to build upon that which has been said previously.According to you THE JESUS TO BE BELIEVED IN IS MOST FULLY AND ACCURATELY DESCRIBED WITHIN MORMON TEACHING. Is this so? The Jesus believed in by Kevin, Perry, Lance et al is a false Jesus. Is this not also so? (unwieldy but, you get my point)What, IYO, are the eternal consequenses for non-Mormons? 
 
Mr. Moderator:Please grant DaveH the opportunity of fully answering and, explaining. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 19, 2005 23:02
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

DAVEH:  FTR Kevin, I believe in Jesus.   Therefore can we conclude that you've made the judgment rather than God?

Kevin Deegan wrote:
He will!
He Has!
JN 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already

Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH: I fully understand that, Perry. But I'd feel more comfortable
letting God make that judgment than you.

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

> David,
>
> Romans 10:9,10 : That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
> Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
> the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto
> righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
>
> But, as I have stated before, the right jesus and right god must be
> at the center of one's faith. I am not just harassing you, Dave, I
> honestly do believe that the mormons worship false gods.
>
> Perry
>
>> From: Dave Hansen
>> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: [TruthTalk] Belief
>> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:16:42 -0700
>>
>> DAVEH: Yeah........Pretty quiet on TT tonight..
>>
>> Do you believe that those who believe in Jesus are saved, as I've
>> heard many Christians proclaim? If belief is inadequate, what else
>> is needed, Perry?
>>
>> Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>>
>>> Dave, this is great. Midnight, just me and you on TT, mano y mano,
>>> so to speak :-)
>>>
>>> I guess I am biase d in that way, because both you and Blaine admit
>>> to following the christ and jesus of mormonism, so it is my opinion
>>> that you are lost since I believe that they are false gods. If I
>>> thought that you guys were saved in spite of the teachings of the
>>> mormon church I would not be spending so much time exposing the
>>> false nature of the mormon church to you.
>>>
>>> But, the bottom line is that God makes that ultimate decision, not I.
>>>
>>> Perry
>>>
>>

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
 
 
 
 

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