[TruthTalk] God of the OT

[Dave Hansen]

Charles Perry Locke wrote:   We are mixing apples and oranges, Dave. DAVEH:  I'm just trying to understand how you (non-LDS Christians) perceive it, Perry.  From my LDS perspective, your belief (as I perceive it) doesn't make any sense.  So....I assume I am grossly misunderstanding what you folks are trying to tell me.   Jesus does have a resurrected body, but the God Father is Spirit... that is, He ain't got no body. DAVEH:   As I understand your perspective, God the Father and Jesus are one God....IOW, don't you perceive them to be the same God?  And your belief that God the Father is a spirit....does that not just apply to the OT...before Jesus took upon himself a body of flesh and blood?  If Jesus of the NT, and God of the OT are the same (and maybe I am misunderstanding your belief on that), then if you believe Jesus today has a body of flesh and bones, why would you not believe God the Father also has a body of flesh and bone today, as opposed to the spirit body he had in the OT?     If you perceive God of the OT and Jesus of the NT to be two separate Gods, then it would make some sense....but I know you don't believe that they were two separate Gods.   Hmmmmm.....Maybe you believe somewhat like I think DavidM has been explaining....that Jesus was not really God (I hope I am not mischaracterizing what you were saying, DavidM) while he was in mortality.  Is that your perspective, Perry   Didn't you tell me in a previous post that we woud discuss these things based on the Bible? DAVEH:   Yes.  Have I not tried to confine my comments to the Bible, except to acknowledge my LDS biases? And, didn't you ask if I thought God (the Father) had a body of flesh and bones, and ask for Biblical evidence that he did not? I posted several verses that indicate that He does not. DAVEH:   If those passages (and I do not recall at the moment which ones you referenced) were referring to God prior to the resurrection, then do you understand why I would think that the Bible implies God's body would have changed from just a spirit, to a spirit clothed in a body of flesh and bone?   Now for the difference in our viewpoints. You imagine that god (the father) has a body since he was once a man, right? DAVEH:   As I've explained, that is a common speculative assumption of many LDS people, including me. however, there is no biblical verses to support that position... DAVEH:   I did quote one to DavidM that I believe lends oblique support.   (Jn 5:19-20) in fact, there are verses, as I pointed out, that indicate the complete opposite. DAVEH:   Do any of those passages refer to God after the resurrection?  If not, then why would it be unreasonable to believe God of the OT was a spirit, and God post NT now has a body of flesh and bone?   When I say 'God' I usually mean "the Father", but sometimes mean the triune God. I will try to distinguish which I mean, if it is not evident from the context. DAVEH:  This is one of those areas where I think we can have some definitional confusion if we are not careful.   I will try to distinguish when I am referring to the LDS God the Father, and the God the Father as you would perceive him in the OT.  I don't want you to think that I am trying to confuse the issue by using different definitions...I just think the need to use them will pop up now and then and if we recognize such, we will be able to have a meaningful discussion.   Now, when you say 'God', are you referring to the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, any of the three, or all three? DAVEH:  My LDS roots convince me they are all three God.  As a whole they represent the Godhead.  However, for most of what I assume will be our future discussion, God as described in the OT  would be Jesus.    I think that is what you believe, but I'm not sure.   As I've been trying to follow the sonship threads, I'm really not sure how you folks perceive the relationship of God of the OT and Jesus.  Can you give me a brief synopsis?     BTW....I will change the thread so we can start fresh without getting future posts mixed up with others that are posting on this thread.   Also, I appreciate your willingness to explain your perspective with me without interjecting a lot of irrelevant stuff into the discussion. Perry From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DAVEH:  DavidM's beliefs are reflected in his understanding of the word of God as revealed in the Bible.  My beliefs are based in LDS theology, which recognizes a much broader spectrum of the revealed word of God.  So....I see his presumptions as being based on a narrower database than mine.    As for God having a body of flesh and bone (since the resurrection), is there any Christian who can reasonably think he does not have one considering what Jesus said about his resurrected body of flesh and bone?  Is not the basis of Christian belief that Jesus was and remains a resurrected being, consisting of a body of flesh and bone?   And if Jesus is God, why would a Christian today not think God now has a body of flesh and bone, even though he was correctly identified as having a spirit body in the OT?    This puzzles me, Perry.  I see that the Bible teaches the above, and logically I assume Christians would agree with what I explained above.  Yet I suspect there are very few Christians who would agree with what I wrote above.   Which way do you come down on this? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.