1. Is the term "Jesus" something applicable
to this person prior to his being born of Mary?
At the point that sin entered the world, the Son was destined to be
called Jesus. He identifies himself as the ego eimi, the 'I AM,'
which is roughly (and in its context) a Greek equivalent to the Hebrew
covenant-keeping name of God -- YHWH (Yahweh or Jehovah). The name Yeshua
means Yah Saves (or something similar). In my opinion,
this name is applicable to the Son from the moment, at least (I will get
to this below), that sin entered the world. Before there was sin, there
may not have been a need for "salvation" (see immediately
below).
There is indication, however, that in eternity past God anticipated
(here's the question of foreknowledge: Did he "anticipate" it or was it a fact
by way of decree?) that sin would be an issue which would have to be
addressed. Paul states in Ephesians that before the creation of the
world the Father purposed to adopt sons and daughters "through Jesus
Christ." David, this will probably involve one of those non sequiturs
:>) but if he purpose to adopt us in "Jesus," then the very name
of him through whom we would be adopted seems to imply at least
a potential need for our salvation.
Hence, it seems to me that the name Jesus can be considered
applicable to this Son, not only before his birth, and not only from the
introduction of sin into creation, but even back into eternity to that point
when the Father purposed to adopt sons and daughters through this One
whose name means Yah Saves.
jt: Question .. Then why didn't God just simplify
things and do it your way - Why all of his 'redemptive' names such as Jehovah
Jireh,
Jehovah Nissi, Jehovah Tsidkenu, Jehovah Shalom etc.
and why use the term Prophet in Deut 18:15. Jesus is the name of the
man;
as Mary's child he was both son of God and son of
man. However, he came as Prophet, was raised to be Priest, and is
our soon coming King. What kind of presumption locks him into being an
"eternal son" just because of 4th century carnal and circular
reasoning?
2. Is the term "Messiah" or "Christ" applicable to this person
prior to his being born of Mary?
The same answer applies here in many of the same ways as it does to the
name Jesus. The Father purposed to adopt us through the Christ, and this he
did before the foundation of the world. I believe therefore that the Christ
was destined (in fact predestined) to come to us in incarnate form; this from
that point in eternity. Yes, I believe it is applicable. I also believe,
however, as per acts 2.36 and Phil. 2.11, that because of sin and the need to
purge it, the "Christ" had to die and rise anew before he could be fully
equipped and qualified to function as such in that role.
jt: So His redemptive titles didn't avail for the Old
Covenant folk? How so, the promises were made to them also.
3. Is the term "son of David" applicable to this person prior
to his being born of Mary?
From the moment that the "Seed" passed through the loins of Jesse into
David, the term is applicable, although this person did not become the "son of
David" until his physical birth.
jt: So that title isn't eternal - just being the son
is? Why?
4. Is the term "Savior" applicable to this person prior to
his being born of Mary?
This goes back to the question of Jesus. It is applicable in the same way
that the name Yah Saves is applicable.
jt: Isn't Yah another way of saying Yahwek or Jehovah
ie: His redemptive titles under the Old Covenant? Why can't they be
eternal?
5. Is the term "firstborn" in Col. 1:18 applicable to this
person prior to his being born of Mary?
Yes, but again because of sin and the necessity that it be defeated and
his humanity "perfected," it is only fully realized after the
resurrection.
Is it applicable prior to his being resurrected from the
dead?
The term "firstborn" is a title of position and stature as much as it is
a title of birth order. He was the firstborn from birth (and even prior to
that, by way of promise), but he was qualified to function
in that capacity through the resurrection.
jt: And what about the man who walked around telling
everyone that he was from heaven, that he came down from the father; the one
the demons recognized and trembled over; the one who only did what he saw the
father doing and spoke what he heard the father saying?
By the way, the word for "firstborn" is prototokos, from which
we get our word "prototype" -- just a little aside.
6. Is the term "first begotten" in Rev. 1:5 applicable to
this person prior to his being born of Mary? Is it applicable prior
to his being resurrected from the dead?
I believe so, in that he was destined to be Yeshua and the Christ
from eternity past and, as is noted above, because of sin, the Christ
finds fulfillment and qualification in resurrection.
By the way, this again is the word prototokos
Yes - so? What do you believe this Greek
word implies?
7. Is the term "everlasting Father" applicable to this
person prior to his being born of Mary?
No, I don't think so (a lot of certainty
there, huh?). Allow me to explain. It is in the incarnate person of Jesus
Christ, that the Son of God can be called the everlasting Father, and
this by way of union, because in Christ the entire Godhead is represented
via the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, which is the unity which makes God
"one." Hence, the "eternal Father" is known and represented in and
through the person of Jesus Christ.
You had better check further on this one
BT
Concerning this last item, when did Jesus become the
everlasting Father? In your opinion, was he the everlasting Father
before the creation event of Genesis?
No, I don't think so. I believe this a primitive
(OT) reference to the Trinity in the NT, as God would then be revealed
through the Son Jesus Christ, in that in the one person of Jesus Christ
the entire Godhead is disclosed: the "Everlasting Father," the "Prince of
Peace" (a reference to the Son), the "Wonderful Counselor" (which is the
Holy Spirit), and then another reference to their unity in
plurality in the Mighty God. Bill
jt: So even though God the Word had emptied
Himself to become Jesus the man - you are saying that if we saw this man
walking the streets of Galilee that we would be beholding the whole Godhead in
that one man who you believe to be an eternal son?
