Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ

[Judy Taylor]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:59:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Do you, Judy, accept your or anyone else's interpretation of Scripture as 'inspired'? Do you place yourself alongside Athanasius, Basil, Gregory and Gregory?.Take care lest pride overtake you! You and  David' speak well and with authority on some issues but, neither rises to the level of the Church Fathers whom you both so regularly critique.   jt: My answer is No. The best available to all of us is understanding given by way of the same Spirit who inspired the prophets and this does not come by way of Athanasius, Basil, Gregory and Gregory.   I posted recently on Aristotle's influence through Arab philosophy on the church catholic. Therein I asked several, as yet unanswered questions of David on the role of logic in his theological constructs   jt: I didn't see David's response but I know what Luther had to say about the influence of Aristotle in his day.   You, Judy, 'wield your sword' well. However both dualistic and gnostic thinking are a part of who you are.   jt: No they arn't Lance, that is just the way you "interpret" what I write.  Gary does also since he is always accusing me of dualism. I'd be interested in how you and Gary describe being spiritually minded... ie: what does it look like?   Thus, you are trapped within a static way framework. Open structured thinking is a prerequisite for both of you to move on out of your literalistic/fundamentalistic frameworks.   jt: By open structured thinking I perceive you to be saying that we should combine both the wisdom from above and the earthly kind - am I right?     From: Judy Taylor On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:10:26 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Understand that my comments below written in Bold   is my way of setting my newer comments apart.   I am not yelling.    I do expect straight answers  -- yes or no plus a commentary will be fine.  It does not appear that we are talking about just the eternal Sonship of Christ  --  but something that is bigger and even more important.   Judy, please be careful, here, that in your zeal to disagree with me that you are not misrepresenting your own beliefs.   jt: Before I answer your questions JD let me ask you one ..  Do you accept the Nicean Creed on the same level as scripture? Do you believe it was the Holy Spirit who inspired these men to give their own peculiar definition of God and declare Jesus to be an "eternal son?"   1. Is it possible to get a straight answer, here?   Do you believe that Christ was both Son and Almighty God at the same time, here on earth  --  a simple yes or no is what I am looking for.    No.  He took upon Himself a body of flesh and as the "only begotten" son he walked this earth.  As the second Adam He represented God the Father.   2. Are you aware that the Apostle John made these statements about Christ in John 1:1-18????  Apparently you do not think Christ is word, life and light?  I mean, why in the name of reason would you disagree with that?  Is Christ word, life and light?  Yes or no.      Yes. Let me ask you JD, what exactly does the word "Christ" mean (in your own words)?   3. So, you deny that Jesus is the one and only Son of God  ??  Yes or no.    Yes. My belief is that Jesus is the "only begotten" which is an important distinction because God has many sons.   4. Tell me what John 1:14 is talking about, then.     John and the other disciples beheld Him after the resurrection and before the ascension for 50 days in a new and glorified body   5. Is the "Word" a description of His divinity?   In other words, is being The Word tantamount to saying that He was God?   Yes or no.     Yes John 1:1 says "and the Word was God" However he was not God the Father was he?   6. I am talking about the eternal Fatherhood of God  -  that specific concept.  Also, there is absolutely no rule in scripture that tells us tht scripture is of no regard unless a thing is stated at least twice.   Are you telling me tht you believe that if God only says is once,  God is speaking here,  that you are required to pay Him heed until He gets around to stating it a second time?????    No I am saying that it is possible to misunderstand and wrest scripture to our own destruction and that knowing who Jesus is is tantamount to walking with Him because His sheep hear His voice.  It is folly to make a doctrine out of one scripture.     7.  I really do not care about your analysis of their statements, Judy.   Christ Himself agreed with their premise.   Do you deny that "Son of God" as a claim makes Christ equal to "God?"   Yes or no.   No As the son he declared that the Father is greater than he (see John 14:28)   8.  Do you believe that in Christ, John and others behold the glory of .......God?    Yes or no.    Not the way I think you mean JD My belief is that they beheld the glory of God in him after the resurrection and before the ascension but that it was not apparent other than in the words he spoke before that time.   9. Judy  --  do you think verse 46 is a part of the same context as that of verse 44?   Yes or no?  (John 5:44)   No not in your Bible John 5:44-46 is talking about ppl who are honoring themselves and each other and don't seek the honor that comes from God alone.  You know what they are talking about JD - you see it in church circles all the time.