Hi g,
I've jotted a few thoughts pertaining to your
question as to my understanding of "forgiveness" in the NT. Please
enjoy:
I believe forgiveness of humanity is a
present reality in Christ Jesus. There is no one living today who is not
living in a state of ontological forgiveness
a dynamic state of continuing forgiveness -- we live
in this state at some point ???? Yes. Now (See 2Cor 5.19).
(I use the term ontological to distinguish between our status in
Christ and the practical application of that status in existential confession
of sin). I believe further that redemption (2Pet 2.1), reconciliation (2Cor
5.18-19; Rom 5.10), restoration (i.e., recapitulation: Eph 1.10),
justification (Rom 5.18), and atonement (1Joh 2.2; 2Cor 5.14), are a fait
accompli in Christ Jesus, accepting this - how
is obedience explained and is obedience fulfilled in
believing????????? It is fulfilled in his
believing. It is his obedience (i.e., the "faithfulness of Christ": Gal 2.16;
Phi 3.9) which saves us; just as it is his baptism
(Col 2.12), his sanctification (Joh 17.19) and his circumcision (Col
2.11). Here again I agree with
g: "in sum, acc to Matt
12, the issue in JCs judgment is not moral--it's certainly not
rooted in dualism--it's
eschatological" the One for
the many (Rom .15-21), the living God, who is the savior of all humans,
especially those who believe (1Tim 4.10). Hence I also believe that salvation
is not just an eschatological possibility with contingencies resting upon
human shoulders, it is reality right here, right now, for us all.
is there a practical sidefor all outside obedience?????????? I'm not sure what you mean by "outside obedience." Certainly
there is a role for active obedience from our side; e.g., "If you love
me, you will obey my commandments." Obedience is our loving response to Jesus;
it is our (super)natural reaction to his love for
us.
Those who believe in Jesus Christ respond to him by
faith, whereby they are sealed with the Holy Spirit and will never see
destruction (Eph 1.13ff; 4.30; 2Cor 1.21-22; Joh 5.24; Rom 8.1; 8.38-39; 1Joh
5.13). A Calvinistic position
??????? Yeah, I guess, in that
Calvin came before us and he was onto this big time
:>) Those who do not believe fall into more than one
category: those who cannot believe (infants and certain mentally disabled);
those who could believe but have not heard; those who could believe but have
not yet committed themselves to him by faith; and those who have heard, could
believe, but are passionately rejecting the present witness of the Holy
Spirit to Christ. This last group, if they should die in their denial, commit
that sin for which there is no forgiveness -- which makes sense when one
considers that they are refusing not only the one who has forgiven them,
but the only one who can ultimately forgive them their sins; in denial
they sever themselves from their Savior. The "unpardonable" aspect of this
sin, however, is actually realized in the eschaton and not in this life
-- hence what I understood you to be saying with the words, "one's denial
of the presence of the future in history is precisely one's denial
of Christ present to forgive him now in the person of the Holy
Spirit."
And so, what about the fait accompli from above: Do
these people remain in a state of redemption, etc., throughout their
lifetime? Yes, I believe they do. These are those who are represented by
the older brother in the parable of the prodigal son. Although
the inheritance is fully theirs, and at their Father's request they could
join the party at any time, they stand within earshot of the celebration
refusing to participate. Should they die out there in the cold, then, it will
not be because they were not sons (and daughters) of God by way of adoption in
Christ; it will be because they refused to participate in the "dance." They
are his children but refuse to act as such. This should mark the
death of the criticism that says "Bill Taylor is an universalist." Yeah, and what a relief that will be
:>)
Moreover, the fact that there is resurrection for
everyone (1Cor 15.21-22) is, in my opinion, the
strongest evidence for this fait accompli. When Jesus died he changed the
nature of death for everyone. All are included in his death and all are
included in his resurrection. As Representative Man, he is all things for all
people. What he did in his person, he did for all persons, the One for the
many; the many in the One. All are included in him (Rom 5.10ff; Col 1.17;
Eph 1.10; 1Joh 2.2).
This being true, how de we define "salvation"
and "condemnation?" ??????> The short answer:
Jesus Christ and he alone is Salvation. Condemnation is the eschatological
result of refusing Salvation; i.e., Jesus Christ.
This, then, is the context for contemplating the
"second death" on the other side of resurrection. The first death is on
Christ, so to speak, in that he picks up the cost of that one -- great
news, too, because there is resurrection! But there is no "sacrifice" to
cover a blatant refusal of him (cf. Heb 6, no one can crucify again
the Son of God); hence there is no pardon for the sin of rejection. And
sin, whether in this lifetime or the next, only produces one thing and that is
death (I will get into this further in my response to DaveH). To paraphrase
what Jesus was saying, every sin that humans commit will be forgiven them (an
act which has taken place in his passion), except the sin of rejecting
the One who will die to effectuate the forgiveness of their
sins (as attested to by the Holy Spirit). To reject Christ is to reject the
One in whom there is forgiveness. And to do it unto death, is to have
your name "blotted out" of the Lamb's book of life (Rev 3.5). There is
therefore a second death which awaits those who have rejected him and have
died in that state. In resurrected bodies they will be confronted by the
consequence of that sin -- and this without a "Savior." Hence they will
meet death again; this time picking up their own tab.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:09
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator
commant **
what's you
understanding of 'forgiveness' in the NT?
Couldn't have said it any better, not even if I were
the Bish. Right on, G.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:57
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] **
Moderator commant **
in Matt
12 one's present experience of JCs future forgiveness is
of the Holy Spirit
||
