No -- we have graduated to nothing at all. You are beating around the bush my friend. You don't want to answer the questions. Here they are, again:
(1) what are the works of justification in the book of James?
(2) At what point are we saved -- at the point of faith or at the point of works?
(3) If we stop "working" do we suddenly lose our salvation?
(4) What is the definition of "works" in James?
(5) Why does James NOT contradict Paul's statement in Romans 4 that we are saved by faith apart from works of law?"
I want to tell you straight up that Lance and I are very much on the same page in our opinion of you.
The bad news is that you have no hermeneutic and actually think that this good. On the positive side -- in your everyday life -- you, my dear, are clearly obsessed with Jesus. I am going to describe you. Tell if I am 10 % or 30% aor 90% will you.
You are around my age (grandkids and all). And you are holiness pentecostal. Your hair, if not gray, is brown , and more often than not roll it into a bun. You wear glasses at least part of the time. Your dresses are sleeved to below the elbow and very often wear black shoes with a square heel to church. And , you never miss church. how am I doing.
I am still waiting, by the way. Let's not forget that I pretty much pegged deegan. If I am right with you - I will stop taking this Vicodin !!
(just kidding)
(I really will not quit)
(Just kidding).
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:08:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Works and the Book of James
So now we are no longer discussing conflict between the writings of James and Paul in the New Testament.
We have graduated to discussing smoke screens? Am I correct? Exactly what have I committed myself to in
black and white JD? I have no problem with James and Paul - Not only that I love God's Law which from your
writings you believe to be irrelevant now. Are you going to explain to me how it is possible that your dancing
Trinity could be contradicting each other in God's Word? jt
On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 10:00:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is a smoke screen (I refer to your denial of same, below). I will give some credit to DM. More often than not, he will at least make an effort.The reason why you will not answer is simple -- after you have committed yourself to something in black and white, the next round of questions wil, in deed, expose the impossibility of your theology. Don't commit here and no one will ever know, over there!! Profound! Jd
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can not give you the answer you want JD. The reason I mention the CofC is because I don't believe you arefree of some emotional entanglement and you reject truth because of your experiences with that group in the past.I have no smoke screen defense. I say again that no prophecy of scripture contradicts another and I cannot seehow you would believe this since you are so into imagining the Godhead (perichoresis) dancing with each otherHow could they be contradicting each other in God's written Word? Explain that to me - please.... jtOn Fri, 08 Jul 2005 09:27:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Are you going to not answer my questions?? !! If it were the other way around -- what would I be reading, time after time after time after time if not a continual "I'm waiting, John !!" You don't answer the question because you can't - that is clear. You rant about the Church of Christ as if I have something to do with that group ------------ avoiding the real discussion. And you misrepresent my thinking as to the supposed contradiction between James and Paul. The fact of the matter is this: your personal theology cannot stand up to in depth questioning so you resort to the smoke screen defense. Interesting.Oh, by the way ------------------------------------------ I am still waiting. Jd
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What for JD? Paul does not contradict James and James is not contradicting Paul. The contradiction is in yourwide sweeping comprehension of this "incarnational" thing which is a doctrine of men rather than the Wordof God. Just because the CofC misused God's Word does not mean we should throw out the parts they usedto wound. Separate from them but hold fast to God's truth.On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 09:01:37 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I'm still waiting !! Jd
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If all one is holding to is dead doctrine from some theologian - did they have salvation to begin with? One cannotlose what they never had to begin with. Jesus' Words are life giving - they will quicken your mortal body. jt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You really do not have the foggiest as to what James is talking about in his letter, do you? Prove me wrong !! Tell me, what are the works of justification in the book of James? At what point are we saved -- at the point of faith or at the point of works? If we stop "working" do we suddenly lose our salvation? What is the definition of "works" in James? Why does James NOT contradict Paul's statement in Romans 4 that we are saved by faith apart from works of law?"I'm waiting !!!! JD
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
James wrote it (James 2:14-20) - I'm agreeing with the Word of Godand yes I don't see much grace in dead faith - do you Kevin? judytFaith w/o works is Dead....Are you saying it is a DEAD FAITH?
Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:It's JD's way of saying that you are a works/salvationist rather than what he calls graceBut no worries Christine - you have lots of good company :) We all know that faith orwhat some call grace without works (corresponding actions) is DEAD. judytOn Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Christine Miller <verilysaid@yahoo.com> writes:JD wrote:Christine, you are an excellent proponent of will worship.Thanks! What does that mean?Blessings
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Christine, you are an excellent proponent of will worship.Salute, Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: Christine Miller <verilysaid@yahoo.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 08:46:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TruthTalk] Sermon outline
I thank you all for your interest in my teaching. I gave this message Wednesday night to the youth group at my church, which is a group of 30 middle and high school kids. So, this might be sophmoric for you all, but here it is. :-) "Separating your Spirituality from Ordinary Life." To the seven Churches on Judgement Day: Rev. 2:2- "I know thy works" 2:9- "I know thy works" 2:13- "I know thy works" 2:19- "I know thy works" Etc. A pattern is developing here, namely, that on Judgement day, Jesus will give attention to our works. Another account of Judgement Day, in the Gospel: Mat. 7:21-23- Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. My first reaction to this passage, is to wonder at Jesus' choice of words here. "Ye that work iniquity?!" Jesus could have just left it at "I never knew you" and sent them to Hell. They worked miracles and cast out devils. I would not consider that working iniquity. There is something here, then, that I am not seeing. I am not seeing the whole picture as Jesus is attempting to show it. Mat. 25:31-46 This is where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, and welcomes the sheep into everlasting life. The righteous respond by saying they did not remember ever feeding Him or clothing Him. So now, we have a situation where the righteous are people who visit the sick or feed the hungry? These are not super spiritual things. One more passage: Luk 3:7 Then said he (John the Baptist) to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? After rebuking them, they were pricked in their hearts, and said, "What shall we do then?" His response was a list of practical, ordinary things. He did not tell them to go and offer a sacrifice, or to pray an hour a day, he told them to be generous with their clothes and food, to be content with their wages, to not falsely accuse anyone. He is telling them that this baptism should wash their entire life, their business life, their personal life, it should affect how they act even when they're not being religious-minded. And considering the two greatest commandments, on which Jesus said hang all the law and the prophets, we see that loving God with our heart, soul, and might means loving our pesky siblings or refusing to help someone cheat on a quiz. When Jesus said he saw our works in Revelations 2 and 3, he was saying, "I saw how your treated your sister," and "I saw you would not be content or thankful for anything you had." Those people who said they cast out devils and worked miracles in His name clearly did not understand what it meant to love God and how to apply that love to their lives. Responding to an alter call means nothing if it doesn't change how you treat your co-workers at that part-time job. We are to be a people set apart: 2 Cor. 6:14-17 -But we can't stick out like a sore thumb in a Church. He must mean, then, that we must act differently from the rest of the world. We must learn to handle road rage differently from the way unbelievers handle road rage. Jesus is in the business of turning ordinary, wordly things into spiritual things. "Peter, does that mean you don't fish anymore?" Well, no, I do fish. But it's different now. I'm a fisher of men now. Jesus doesn't mean for you to stop leading an ordinary, real life. He just means for you to glorify Him in it. This is what it means to be a true Christian. Choosing to merge your spiritual habits with your ordinary life is what the sheep did in Mat. 25. The goats chose otherwise. Well, hope that wasn't too long or young for you. I spoke on this for an hour, so I said a lot more, but I don't want to lay it on too thick, as if I were preaching at you all. :-) One other thing I included in my message that I would like your opinion on: I've notived in John 20, John writes how he outran Peter to the tomb. I can't find the significance in this, except to say that John likes the fact that when he and Peter raced, John won. Also, in John 21, when Peter is told that he will die a martyr's death, Peter asks, "Lord, what shall this man do?" as if to say, "What about teacher's pet over there?" I believe Peter and John loved each other, but I believe they both wanted to be Jesus' favorite, that we see into their personalities in these two passages. My point on this in the lesson was to say that Jesus' disciples were also ordinary people. They were extraordinary men of God, but they are real people, as real as you or I, who learned to love and serve God in their daily walk. I used these passages to say that we see into their personalities a little bit here. But what does Truth Talk think? My research on this passage was disapointing- no one else could really explain the account of the race. Blessings! ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions ? no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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