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We see it all the time. Did they
leave that part out of your translation also? iz From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why do we not find people in the NT scriptures
"inviting the Lord into their lives?" Bill, I think the
error here is in thinking that being born again must include a powerful
emotional experience. If that is the criteria by which your pastor judges
it is not a biblical model. I believe in simply having the person pray a prayer
of repentance for sin, and invite Jesus to be their Lord and Savior, and asking
the Holy Spirit to fill and guide them. It is a simple, unemotional
event. It is based on faith, not on emotion. If emotions follow,
that is wonderful, but certainly not necessary. I would have prayed such
a prayer with your friend so that he would know for sure that he had done the
right thing. His doubts would disappear, and God would honor his sweet heart?s
intent. izzy -----Original Message----- I am glad, David, that you are not immediately
jumping to conclusions, either about this man -- his faith, obedience, etc.
-- or as to how we may have counseled him through this crisis of faith.
Thank you. It demonstrates spiritual maturing on your part. This was a man who had confessed many times that
Jesus is Lord and had demonstrated as well as any of us are able to tell
that he believed in his heart that God had raised Jesus from the dead. The
problem was not his soul condition, it was with his theological conditioning.
Our pastor had been drilling us for weeks with the same old "you
must be born again" stuff, which was more of the same old thing which he had
been hearing and teaching and living out his whole life. The problem was our
pasture had grounded this teaching not in Jesus Christ but in our existential
encounter. If we had not had a powerful conversion experience, then we had
good reason to question our salvation. Well, here was a man who, because of
his Christian "experience," having been raised by godly
parents in the church and believed the truth of Jesus Christ his entire life, had never
had one of those experiences where you're supposed to feel the ground
shake. The truth was, he had never not believed. As a good friend of mine
says, if he would have repented he would have had to stop believing. He had
always believed from as far back as he could remember. He had just been
deceived into thinking that his salvation was in jeopardy because he had not had
a "powerful conversion experience." Of course, our pasture was
convinced he was going to bring this poor old man to the Lord. And so he pounded him and
drilled him and only made things worse -- but, thankfully, I was able to
visit with him and ground his belief in Jesus Christ and bring him to a
faithful assurance of his salvation in Jesus Christ, his Savior. But what a travesty to have done this to that man.
You surely do not have to agree with me concerning "born again" and
when that takes place, to understand the dilemma that bad theology had placed
us -- him especially -- in. To jump to conclusions and immediately start
seeing red flags going up, is only to confirm your own lack of awareness and
biblical sensitivity here. Thank you for not doing that. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: " To: < Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 > Judy wrote: > > How terribly sad - did somebody
counsel and pray > > with this man who was obviously under
conviction > > of the Spirit? ... > > A born again person who is right with God
knows > > they are born again and right with
God. If they don't > > know this it is a huge red flag - and this
man was crying > > out for help..... > > For what it's worth, I had kind of the same
reaction to reading this. I > hear of long term Christian men growing up in
the church but never having > had experienced being born again. I read
a pastor's testimony once who had > pastored a very large traditional church.
He suddenly experienced the new > birth, and did not know what to do. He
told his congregation from the > pulpit that he had been a Christian all his
life, earned a doctorate in > theology, pastored for many years, but he had
never been born again. He > gave his testimony. It completely split
the church. Many could not fathom > how such a scholar of the Bible, such a good
man, could not have been born > again. Many actually believed that he had
lost his mind and gone insane. > About half the church stayed with him, but the
other half just could not > understand. > > I don't know this man that Bill mentioned.
Bill did. That means Bill has a > better foundation from which to speak on this
issue, but it does seem to me > that the Lord was dealing with him. > > Peace be with you. > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace,
seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this
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to > > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned
with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians
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- RE: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 ShieldsFamily
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 knpraise
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 David Miller
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 knpraise
- RE: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 ShieldsFamily
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 Terry Clifton
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 knpraise
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 Charles Perry Locke
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 knpraise
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 Terry Clifton
- Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 knpraise
