David, two weeks ago our church had an outdoor service where we baptized 193 souls. Every one of them confessed Christ as Lord and Savior when he/she was baptized. When do you think they made Him Lord and Savior--while they were standing in the water, or beforehand? izzy
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 8:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 Judy wrote: > They had to receive the Word of God before being baptized - see the > example of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. This is true, but the Ethiopian you mention did not say the sinner's prayer. He asked to be baptized. This passage tells me several things: 1) Philip did not tell him to bow his head and ask Jesus to come into his heart; otherwise, he would not have said, "if thou believest with all thine heart." 2) the point of his public confession of Christ was water baptism rather than an altar call where he says the sinner's prayer. Reading earlier in the chapter, Acts 8:12 says that when they believed Philip, they were baptized. In modern times, it does not often work that way in Protestant churches. What happens is that when the believe, they are led in a prayer. "Close your eyes and repeat after me..." Baptism is usually not even mentioned, so that new converts often go years attending church without being baptized. In my opinion, this is an over-reaction to Roman Catholicism's emphasis on the saving aspect of baptism through the proper authority in order to be saved. The point is not that the sinner's prayer is wrong or bad. The point is that leading someone to salvation through saying the sinner's prayer is not a Biblical tradition. You and Izzy claim to only believe what you read in the Scriptures. If you have ever led someone to salvation by having them say a prayer, you did not get this tradition from the Scriptures. The closest passage I know of would be the tax collector of Luke 18:13-14, but nobody there led this man in a prayer. It came from his heart. The Biblical tradition of how to lead someone into faith in Christ is to bring them to the waters of baptism if they believe with all their heart. I'm talking about the Biblical model for how a believer would lead another believer into becoming a disciple of Christ. Do you agree? Judy wrote: > But then some were baptized without a heart change > - see Simon the magician who even after being baptized wanted to pay > money to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. > Today if someone rebuked a new believer as Peter did there they would > be run out of church; today they would just love them and put them in > the choir. So very true and so very sad. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
