Re: [TruthTalk] The Humanity of Jesus

[Judy Taylor]

I don't embrace either Izzy - and I don't discount anything because there is a lot I don't know but I have learned some things and I do think we are much worse than we see ourselves or at least than we are willing to admit  to ourselves or to others.  I see Jesus as "like us" in outward appearance only which John the baptist confirmed when He said: "He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all" John 3:30.31 which Jesus affirms in John 6:32,33.   The differences are much more than not sinning even once.  He came with a totally different nature.  I would venture to say that we all come into this world damaged by ancestral curses which are reinforced by damaged parents who were unable to love us as we need to be loved followed by spouses with the same limitations; and the consequence of all this is that we are full of anxiety and fear looking to have our own needs met and unable to love others unconditionally - Love is something we must learn which is perfected in our hearts only after we are born of the Spirit and learn consistency in walking after the Spirit.  He did not arrive here with these kinds of limitations.  judyt   On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:15:00 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Well I guess you could call it banana cream cake, but you seem to embrace the idea that a newborn would go to hell if it died, simply because it was born a human being.  But then you say the opposite.  So I agree, you haven’t decided yet what you think about that particular subject.    The way I see it is that we are born with a sin tendency, I guess you could say.  It is in our fleshly bodies.  Some folks call that “original sin” as well. (I don’t just to keep from mixing it up with the other definition.)  So, yes, we are born with fallen natures.  At some point we will sin.  Except for one human being, Messiah Jesus, who never sinned even once.  That is what made Him our Redeemer.  That’s how I see it.  Does that make any sense to you? izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor   Izzy I keep saying what I believe according to how I understand Genesis and the result of the fall.  When I write this to TT - ppl immediately classify it as "original sin" a rcd or Augustinian teaching.  Do the scriptures have no say here at all?  How do you see the fall then?  Did Adam negate his responsibility.  Did he lose the dominion he had been given, turning it over to the adversary?  Did another kingdom have access to mankind following this incident?   On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:37:17 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:     Either you believe we are born sinful simply because we have human flesh before we ever actually sin, or you do not.  Which do you believe?   jt: Sounds like you have it all figured out Izzy. Yes I believe humankind are born with the taint of sin, we all deserve hell – This statement means you believe in original sin, as all humans Are born tainted with sin and deserving of hell.   As for babies.  That decision belongs with God. I am not going to pronounce them either lost or saved; it's Jesus' call. This statement means you don’t know if you believe in original sin, as you don’t know if babies are born tainted with sin and deserving  of hell the moment they are born.      I would appreciate a straight answer.  If you don't know which one you believe please say so.  Yes or No: Are you a sinner the moment you are born, worthy of hell? Please answer.  (Surely you don't think that depends upon who your parents are?) Thanks, izzy  I don't know. I agree.  Thanks.  izzy