Re: [TruthTalk] Back to the "fall" of man

[Dave Hansen]

DAVEH:  I'm back....a bit tired, but mission accomplished!  Our (took my wife) trip there was for business, though we did manage to spend a day at the World's Fair (Expo) in Nagoya just a few days before it closed.     That's my point, John.  I do not believe God needed a plan B, yet that seems to be what most Christians apparently believe.  I'm just trying to figure out why they would believe such, considering they believe God doesn't make mistakes and knows all.  Or....am I misunderstanding what many Christians believe?  Are there any TTers who believe what happened in the Garden of Eden cause God to go to plan B?     BTW....It appears as though my admonishment about not fighting in my absence was not heeded.     :-( [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Point taken.  But, it would seem likely to me that one who knows all would never need a "plan B"   Why a trip to Japan  --  business or pleasure.   Have an uneventful journey.    God bless.   JD       -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:06:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back to the "fall" of man DAVEH:   Is it really likely one who knows all would have a "plan B" solution to a problem?  It seems to me that even the suggestion of such would minimize the power of God.....something others have attributed to Mormons.     This will probably be my last post for a couple weeks, as I'm just about to leave for Japan.  No fighting while I'm gone, please!   :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not saying that my posted ideas are correct so much as I am putting them out there.  A little intelligent counter discussion would be helpful.   I expect ridicule but it is not helpful.     My big concern, or at least one of my concerns, is to avoid a theology about the Garden Event that gives us a "plan B" solution to the problems associated with the fall.   Christ was not an after-thought if His coming was a part of the creation philosophy.............and His coming was determined before the foundations of the world.    I think it possible that we have made God so perfect that He must play games with us in order to be a part of our existence.   Why did He create man with the ability to sin  in the first place?   If He knows all things,  why did he repent that He had made man?   Or did He only pretend to repent --  using words for our benefit that could not possibly be true  -------------   since He knows all things?    The Garden is problematic and it is so because we believe in the truth of the account.  If we argue that the story is more of a parable  -- fine, but even as a parable it must present truth.     Anyway  --   I am interested in your (you all) thoughts, opposing or otherwise.   Jd             -----Original Message----- From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:59:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Today's Joke What is this? - A Joke or another Monologue - or most likely both?   On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:17:19 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:    What do we have in the Garden of Eden.     A man and a woman created from the dust of the earth.   They were created mortal beings and used (I assume) the Tree of Life to continue to live.    They were not expelled from the Garden because of their sin  -  rather because they might [continue] to eat of the Tree of Life.     There is no reason to assume that they were less selfish, conceited and so on that any of us.  But according to OT thinking, these were not sin.    Their story is the account of the first transgression of law.    Perhaps, in their story we have the beginnings of a Divine Contrast between Law and Grace.   A whole history of mankind under law contrasted with the history of Grace  -------------   always realizing, of course, that the gracious God is seen everywhere in the OT writings.     They were not the only ones created  -   just the first ones.....................the first of the Chosen People of God.    Cain was afraid that he would be killed by others.   What others?   There were whole cities in the days of Adam, Cain and Seth.     So we not only have the first of God's creation, we have the first of the Chosen People of God.    JD   -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.