[TruthTalk] Fruitbearing vs Faithtalking & Legal Wrangling

Tue, 04 Oct 2005 03:45:40 -0700

 
I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch

that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

John 15:1,2

 
She is talking Kingdom language JD which she validates by God's own Word.  Don't you know about
recognizing a good vs an evil tree by the fruit they produce or understand the analogy here with grapes,
thorn bushes, figs, and thistles??  Same point as "out of the abundance that fills the heart the mouth
speaks"  Calling spiritual discernment "profound nonsense" speaks volumes.    jt
 
 
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:05:51 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
I'm guessing that you disagreed with my comment.   Read carefully that to which I responded: 
we are to judge whether someone is really believing God?s gospel by their fruit  Nothing wrong with bearing fruit but
I cannot judge whether you are "really believing God's gospel"   by what you do.   Only God can do this.   My job is
not to judge your degree of faith.  And so I said   ----  "profound nonsense."   JD
 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Matt 7:15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.  16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?    17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20"So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.   ~Jesus
 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 we are to judge whether someone is really believing God?s gospel by their fruit  
 
 profound nonsense.
 
Jd

-----Original Message-----
From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:26:21 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Doubting your salvation ?
Welcome to TruthTalk, Andrew of Australia.  To balance your presentation I might add that we are to judge whether someone is really believing God?s gospel by their fruit, and that Jesus came as a Jew because only the Jews knew God and His Word at all.  izzy
 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew C. Bain
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 2:03 AM
To: TruthTalk
Subject: [TruthTalk] Doubting your salvation ?
 
If someone doubts that they are a believer of the gospel, because they sin, then they do not understand the gospel.
 
The WHOLE point of the gospel, is that Christ came to save filthy vile hell-deserving sinners who will continue to sin after their conversion (their change of mind to the truth). The LAW was NEVER meant to be the grounds of someone's assurance before God. By it is the knowledge of sin. By it Christians are convicted of sin.
 
But how do we know their is a Law? How do you know their is such a thing called sin? Where did you read that adultery is wrong, drunkenness is rebellion, and bitterness is abominable? By the Word of God. Well, doesn't the Word also say, "By His knowledge shall My righteous servant justify many" and "HE SHALL BEAR THEIR INIQUITIES" (Isa53). So if you have the knowledge of Christ, you are justified. If you believe that Christ was a ransom for many, your iniquities are as far as west is from east. How can you doubt? How can you doubt God? He can't lie. He knows everything. And He says that ALL who believe in Christ ARE .... no pause ... they ARE JUSTIFIED from ALL THINGS that they could not be justified by the Law of Moses (Acts 13:39). To doubt His testimony is to spit in his face (so to speak), call Him a Liar, and blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
 
Recently, someone tried to tell me that the NT Hebrew Christians doubted their salvation, because they were wondering whether or not Christ had atoned for their wicked Judaism prior to their conversions. Now, I agree that converted Jews would have been convicted of the apostasy of their past Judaism. And this conviction arose from the Bible. The believing Jews in Rome would have been convicted by Romans 10. Here, God judges Israel apostate. He basically says Israel is full of Pharisees and hypocrites IGNORANT of the righteousness of God. But does God stop there, leaving all the Jews dead in their sins? Wit hout faith, without hope, without God in the world? No. God never sends someone the Law without the Gospel.
 
And imagine one converted Jew -- who we'll call Yechezkel -- reading Romans 10. Yechezkel would have been reminded that when he was an apostate Jew, he had NOT been  "submitted to the righteousness of God" and that he had been "ignorant of the righteousness of God". Yechezkel have would be convicted that he had been an Atheist, with NO knowledge or understanding of God (Romans 10:2). He had been BLIND. In Satan's grip. Dead in sins. Anti-Christian. A God-hater. A liar against God. A blasphemer against the Holy Spirit.
 
But this was all past for Yechezkel. He now believed that Jesus FULFILLED the prophecies of Old. He know believed that Christ was the END of the Law for righteousness. God had revealed to Yechezkel (by the Spirit testifying to the Word) that Christ fulfilled and magnified the Law for EVERYONE -- ALL those -- who have believed, do believe, and will believe.
 
And only those who believe and are sure that He is the Christ, have His righteousness in their account.  God condemns doubters as lost. Romans 10:6: Do not say in your heart, Who will go into heaven? Romans 14:23 He that doubts ... is damned.
 
Yet, our imaginary friend Yechezkel has as much certainty that he will be heaven that Abraham is already.  Yechezkel only knows both of these truths by the Word. He's never seen Abraham in heaven. But God tells him that Abraham is. And guess what? God also says that not only was Abraham justified by His faith (that is, justified by who he believed in, Christ), but so is EVERYONE who believes.
 
Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED.
 
Andrew Bain
Sydney, Australia
 
 

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