Do you believe that the "elect" are those appointed or chosen by God/ Or, is it that the elect are those who are found to be in (eis) Christ? In the former case, the elect are those individuals, specifically chosen before the foundations of the world. In the late, election is preordained in Christ for all.
I could be wrong on this. Your comments below, for the most part, are very close to what I believe, especially when you speak of the faith of Christ. But, as you know, the Older Scriptures often presented predictive truth, for example, in terms of historical dualism.........an immediate fulfillment and a latter day fulfillment, if you will. I see this same type of circumstance in "by faith [in exchange for righteousness] are we saved apart from obedience to law." I do believe that it is the faith of Christ that God looks to when He considers our righteousness -- but our in faith response to the Savior completes the picture. faith upon faith. Salvation from a life of condemnation is one thing. salvation from our out own rebellion is another.
Obedience is "required" for the latter but not the former.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew C. Bain <andrew[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:04:52 +1000
Subject: [TruthTalk] Imputed Righteousness
Hi John,
I'm glad you read what I wrote. Christ said "It is finished" on the cross, didn't He? There's NOTHING -- no thoughts, emotions or obedience -- required for justification. "Abraham believed God and His faith was imputed to him unto righteousness". Abraham was justified by the One he believed in, Christ. The Bible often refers to Christ as "The faith", so God is saying "Christ was imputed" to Abraham "unto righteousness". And Abraham was justified -- declared righteous -- based on the obedience of Christ in His account. But this righteousness was NOT IN Abraham. It was wholly EXTERNAL. Isaiah refers to being "clothed with the garments of salvation" and "covered with the robe of righteousness" (Isaiah 61:10). What saved Isaiah was outside him. He was covered and clothed with righteousness, NOT infused with it (like the wedding guests in the parable). Similarly, the sins of sheep were imputed to Christ on the cross. Intellectually and judicially the sins of the Elect became Christ's (like a debt of $50 can be charged to someone else's account, and the debt becomes theirs intellectually and judicially, even though they never contracted the debt - so Christ never sinned himself). In Psalm 38:4 Christ calls the Elect's sins "my iniquities". We know that Psalm 34 is talking about Christ and NOT David, because v20 of it is applied to Christ in John 19:36. (In fact, the New Testament NEVER says the Psalms are about David at all!). So there are two imputations. Christ took the Elect's sin (#1) and gives Him their righteousness (#2). And they're completely passive in earning Heaven. Instead, "this is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Only the finished work of Christ can satisfy God's demand for absolute obedience to the Eternal Law.
----- Original Message -----From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:34 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Doubting your salvation ?Welcome, Andrew. Good words --- important words. It is surprising to me how many Christian folk want to believe something other than this message of hope. They are everywhere -- even here on TT. Good folk who believe that works save them rather than the bibilical notion (IMO) that our works extend from the salvation that is within us -- one we call The Christ.Thanks again for your words.JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew C. Bain <andrew[EMAIL PROTECTED]com>
To: TruthTalk <TruthTalk@mail.innglory..org>
Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:03:19 +1000
Subject: [TruthTalk] Doubting your salvation ?
If someone doubts that they are a believer of the gospel, because they sin, then they do not understand the gospel.The WHOLE point of the gospel, is that Christ came to save filthy vile hell-deserving sinners who will continue to sin after their conversion (their change of mind to the truth). The LAW was NEVER meant to be the grounds of someone's assurance before God. By it is the knowledge of sin. By it Christians are convicted of sin.But how do we know their is a Law? How do you know their is such a thing called sin? Where did you read that adultery is wrong, drunkenness is rebellion, and bitterness is abominable? By the Word of God. Well, doesn't the Word also say, "By His knowledge shall My righteous servant justify many" and "HE SHALL BEAR THEIR INIQUITIES" (Isa53). So if you have the knowledge of Christ, you are justified. If you believe that Christ was a ransom for many, your iniquities are as far as west is from east. How can you doubt? How can you doubt God? He can't lie. He knows everything. And He says that ALL who believe in Christ ARE .... no pause ... they ARE JUSTIFIED from ALL THINGS that they could not be justified by the Law of Moses (Acts 13:39). To doubt His testimony is to spit in his face (so to speak), call Him a Liar, and blaspheme against the Holy Spirit .Recently, someone tried to tell me that the NT Hebrew Christians doubted their salvation, because they were wondering whether or not Christ had atoned for their wicked Judaism prior to their conversions. Now, I agree that converted Jews would have been convicted of the apostasy of their past Judaism. And this conviction arose from the Bible. The believing Jews in Rome would have been convicted by Romans 10. Here, God judges Israel apostate. He basically says Israel is full of Pharisees and hypocrites IGNORANT of the righteousness of God. But does God stop there, leaving all the Jews dead in their sins? Without faith, without h ope, without God in the world? No. God never sends someone the Law without the Gospel.And imagine one converted Jew -- who we'll call Yechezkel -- reading Romans 10. Yechezkel would have been reminded that when he was an apostate Jew, he had NOT been "submitted to the righteousness of God" and that he had been "ignorant of the righteousness of God". Yechezkel have would be convicted that he had been an Atheist, with NO knowledge or understanding of God (Romans 10:2). He had been BLIND. In Satan's grip. Dead in sins. Anti-Christian. A God-hater. A liar against God. A blasphemer against the Holy Spirit.But this was all past for Yechezkel. He now believed that Jesus FULFILLED the prophecies of Old. He know believed that Christ was the END of the Law for righteousness. God had revealed to Yechezkel (by the Spirit testifying to the Word) that Christ fulfilled and magnified the Law for EVERYONE -- ALL those -- who have believed, do believe, and will believe.And only those who believe and are sure that He is the Christ, have His righteousness in their account. God condemns doubters as lost. Romans 10:6: Do not say in your heart, Who will go into heaven? Romans 14:23 He that doubts ... is damned.Yet, our imaginary friend Yechezkel has as much certainty that he will be heaven that Abraham is already. Yechezkel only knows both of these truths by the Word. He's never seen Abraham in heaven. But God tells him that Abraham is. And guess what? God also says that not only was Abraham justified by His faith (that is, justified by who he believed in, Christ), but so is EVERYONE who believes.Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED.
