Again, Judy misses the point of the exchange. Knowing Barth will not help Kevin live his life. But Kevin cannot offer criticism of Barth without knowing Barth ---- at least intelligent criticism. That is the point, Judy.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:28:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perhaps a thought for the day
How would it help Kevin to know what Barth believes? That may help Barth if it is
in fact the truth. What Kevin believes is of much more import to Kevin..... and to those who hear him.
You follow Barth. I'll follow Christ. jt
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
a clue?How about an Authoratative Skeptic
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You have not a clue as to what Barth believes.JD
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Barth has Refuted himself from further testimony.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I have highlighted that which jumped out at me. Have a good night. I feel great, by the way. I have gooten completely away from the personal issues of this forum. The kid is back.jdDear John: I remember our discussions and thank you for continuing by posing some questions about law and grace. From Barth (and Thomas Torrance) I began to understand that God's grace is itself the source of God's law. Even the ten commandments were given as imperatives following the indicative statement, I am the Lord (Jahweh) who brought you out of Egypt (grace) now therefore keep my commandments (law). The cross represents the consequence of sin (death). Grace is God's entering into humanity (incarnation) in order to assume that death, die that death, and through resurrection (grace) provide a gracious atonement (1 Cor. 15:17). Paul taught that the law was a temporary provision (a pedagogue) brought in to lead to Christ. With Christ, the law (the pedagogue) came to an end (Gal 3). So that we are no longer under the "law" which works death, but the "law of the Spirit of Christ" which brings life (Rom. 8:1ff).
Luther tended to view law and gospel as opposed to one another. The preaching of the law is for the purpose of closing all people up to the hopelessness of their sinful condition so that they turn to the gospel of grace as the only remedy.
Barth rejects this, and views grace as preceding the law so that the law is based on grace, not grace on the law. See, Barth, CD, II/1, pp. 351-363; "Grace is the inner mode of being in God Himself," p. 353
"It is a well-known fact that Luther usually referred the consciousness of sin, the fear of God's wrath and penitence, to a special revelation of divine Law, holiness and wrath, separate from the revelation of grace; to a special aspect o f God's being, its majesty and hiddenness. In this respect we do not follow Luther because this scheme cannot honestly be maintained in the face of the apparently more complicated but in truth far simpler testimony o f Scripture. In Scripture we do not find the Law alongside the Gospel but in the Gospel, and therefore the holiness of God is not side by side with but in His grace, and His wrath is not separate from but in his love." Pp. . 362-3
Creation and human history are based on grace; Barth, CD III/1, pp. 66ff.
Grace is primary, sin is secondary, thus, sin is a sin against grace. Grace is not something introduced as a result of sin. Barth, CD III/2, p. 32 "The grace of God, the covenant of God with man, is primary. The sins of man is secondary."
Ray (Anderson)__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
