-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:08:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
----- Original Message -----Sent: 10/18/2005 8:41:27 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matterAs I see it, Dean, there is a "salvation" that delivers us from the condemnation of the law. When God tells us that under the NT, our sins are not accounted to us -- He is speaking of sin as a violation of the law IMO. I can be delivered from the curse of the law and still find myself "lost." How is that? In the same say the prodigal son was "lost." Hell, in that scenario, is the pig pen --- a reasonable consequence of the life lived by the prodigal. We are told that those who do not believe are dead ALREADY. Eph 4:22-23 tells us that we are laying aside our old self (yes, he is still there but in decreasin g measure) while, at the same time, putting on the mind of the Spirit. This process is called "salvation IMO, and the end of the precess is also called "salvation." You seem to think "salvation" is only about an event we call the new birth --- rather than a process of growth and activity that eventually leads us to see that God has been working all along to accomplish His will in us (Philip. 2"12,13 and John 3:21). Salvation from the condemnation of the Law is an event, I suppose. But salvation via faith and grace, bringing us to maturity IS NOT AN EVENT. In Romans 10:10, the key word is not written in tha t text -- it is "eventually." My belief will eventually lead to righteousness at some level. If my believing (present tense) is consistent, I will reach some level of personal righteousness -- eventually. If I keep on confessing (present tense) , a personal salvation will be the result - eventually.JD
cd: John I am of the belief that God not only saves now but there is a future fulfillment of that salvation in heaven. We have been saved, we are being saved and we will be save Consider 1 Thess 5:23 "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete,without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (ASV)".When we have our sins removed there is no claim against us. What decides a persons souls destination is sin and sin is the transgression of the law. Sin as a "transgression" is not the only definition of sin. There is outright rebellion, sins of omission, and sins of character (such as pride, bigotry, selfishness, covetousness, lust and so on). If I am preserved If I am perceived complete then there is no guilt !!! Holiness is a consideration in the mind of God because of Christ's actions ON OUR BEHALF. IN HIM, we are holy, blameless and without reproach. complete then there is no guilt-therefore I can say I am right by Gods law(ie.righteous). Righteous cannot come by the law I recently spoke with a Cherokee Indian who asked me,"So you are saying that all my ancestors that have never heard of Jesus before the w hite man came are going to hell". My reply was" No, what I am saying is that the sins your ancestors committed is what will send them to hell-Christ is the way to remove sins.He has removed mine therefore I can claim that I am saved from the penalty of the law .That is why the Bible states that the Law is our schoolmaster bringing us to Christ.The law teaches right and wrong and if one has done wrong(as all have) then the law points towards Christ as the redeemer. His blood is the price that God demands for our sin -so we are purchased back from Satan whom we served. Not so, grasshopper. The law proves that we cannot save ourselves. It defines us as unrighteous. The legal remedy was death. That has been removed. This is called salvation. But there is another aspect we call salvation ------ God working in partnership with man -- that is salvation as well. God in Christ in us , saving us from ourselves, if you will. This is ALSO salvation. Faith and [even] partnership is not required for the former accomplishment -- the reconciliation of all things unto Himself. That is unilateral, as I see it. "For while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son. Much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life" (Ro 5:10). When Paul writes II Co 5:20 and says "be ye reconciled to God," I believe this has to do with "we shall be saved by the life of Christ." We have been saved (from condemnation, reconciled by Christ in the body of his flesh at his death -- Col 1:19-23), we are being saved (have this mind in you which was also in Christ; God added daily those who were being saved Acts 2:47; Eph 4:20-24); &nb sp; we will be saved (future and final reward; end of the struggle; we will be saved by the life of Christ - God completing what was begun in the Garden )Jd
