Perry -- I knew I would have something of substance to say about the subject when you introduced "Ale" into the idscussion.
I would not be surprised to hear a reasonable explanation to the point you made about the Satan thingy.
A person who claims the name of Christ and , thus, the brotherhood of believers but refuses to follow the instructions of the Apostles was considered a "brother>" There was no joint participation because of the divide, but that had nothing to do with the banner "brother." That is how I read II Thess 3:14ff.
As far as the issues you raise -- again, I believe the primary difference between the Catholic Christian Church and the Mormon religion is the issue of doctrinal and moral righteousness as applied to the First Church and the fantasy that this First Church was closer to the Perfect Church than in later years. The "Great Apostasy" that we reference from time to time was not possible except for the existence of the foundational principles of legalism as expressed in Judaism !!! the founding fathers of Mormonism are simply wrong when they conclude that God would have ever felt the need to start over in an administration of unmerited favor. The NEED to do it right is challenged by the doctrine of unmerited favor and rendered "unnecessary." Faith is exchanged for right action (<
SPAN class=correction id="">Ro 4:3) . This is the case because IT HAS TO BE THE CASE. There is no alternative to this - so God, Himself, acts with this consideration in His Mind. If it true on an individual level , it must be true on the corporate level.
Absolutely no one argues this point on this forum and it is the beginning of the Mormon Departure. Everything else, in my mind, is peripheral.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Perry Locke <cpl2602@hotmail.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:13:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] "To the Square": Was: Restoration versus condemnation
John, you are right. You decoded the secret message. You get the prize! The mormons drink apple cider!
On a more serious note, though, you truly do not have anything to say about the allegation that the writer of the referenced web page makes? (And there are many that concur with that assessment). It does not affect your view at all if the momons call on the name of Satan in their rituals?
Maybe that allegation is true, and maybe it is not, but would you not want to know a little more? If you found out it was so, would you continue to fellowship with mormons, calling them 'brother'?
Maybe Dave will grace us with his explanation of what that really means and dispel our worst fears, that it might be true!
Maybe Dave doesn't even know.
Maybe his bishop doe sn't even know!
Maybe since it is part of the temple rituals, and not recorded (as far as I know) but instead passed via oral tradition, the knowledge of what it means has been lost!
Why was it changed in 1930? Did someone figure out what it really means and try to change it?
Maybe they originally had it all wrong and Satan himself changed it to the right wording and pronunciation?
Maybe Dave has been invoking the name of Satan without knowing it!
Perry
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] "To the Square": Was: Restoration versus >condemnation
>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:29:24 -0400
>
>Two of the "substantials" were from JT and included some interesting quotes >from the Mormon folk.
>
>I am thinking that "pay lay Ale" has something to do with apple cider . >No?
>
>Jd
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:17:04 -0700
>Subject: [TruthTalk] "To the Square": Was: Restoration versus condemnation
>
>
>John, for someone who is not interested in a specific thread, you sure >spend a lot of energy keeping score...according to your own scoring >standard, of course.
>
> Do you not consider it significant that mormons raise their arms "to the >square" and chant "Pay Lay Ale" three times in their rituals. Do you know >what that means?
>
> From http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/templeofthegodmakers.htm:
>
> "If you are still not sure if they [the mormons] pray to the false god >or the true God, did you know that the chant has been changed? Until just >before 1930, they chanted "Pale hale hale" or "Pale ale ale." What a >coincidence! The direct Hebrew translation of "Pele Heylel" is "Marvelous >Lucifer"!(4)
>
> (Dave, I got this from one of those blasted "anti-mormon" websites, so >if any of this is incorrect, then please correct it.)
>
> I do not accuse the mormon religion of being of Satan lightly...it is a >huge accusation...but there is much evidence of this, the foregoing being >just a glance.
>
>Perry
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >2 - 16
> >
>
>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org
>
>If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg and he will be subscribed.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
On a more serious note, though, you truly do not have anything to say about the allegation that the writer of the referenced web page makes? (And there are many that concur with that assessment). It does not affect your view at all if the momons call on the name of Satan in their rituals?
Maybe that allegation is true, and maybe it is not, but would you not want to know a little more? If you found out it was so, would you continue to fellowship with mormons, calling them 'brother'?
Maybe Dave will grace us with his explanation of what that really means and dispel our worst fears, that it might be true!
Maybe Dave doesn't even know.
Maybe his bishop doe sn't even know!
Maybe since it is part of the temple rituals, and not recorded (as far as I know) but instead passed via oral tradition, the knowledge of what it means has been lost!
Why was it changed in 1930? Did someone figure out what it really means and try to change it?
Maybe they originally had it all wrong and Satan himself changed it to the right wording and pronunciation?
Maybe Dave has been invoking the name of Satan without knowing it!
Perry
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] "To the Square": Was: Restoration versus >condemnation
>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:29:24 -0400
>
>Two of the "substantials" were from JT and included some interesting quotes >from the Mormon folk.
>
>I am thinking that "pay lay Ale" has something to do with apple cider . >No?
>
>Jd
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:17:04 -0700
>Subject: [TruthTalk] "To the Square": Was: Restoration versus condemnation
>
>
>John, for someone who is not interested in a specific thread, you sure >spend a lot of energy keeping score...according to your own scoring >standard, of course.
>
> Do you not consider it significant that mormons raise their arms "to the >square" and chant "Pay Lay Ale" three times in their rituals. Do you know >what that means?
>
> From http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/templeofthegodmakers.htm:
>
> "If you are still not sure if they [the mormons] pray to the false god >or the true God, did you know that the chant has been changed? Until just >before 1930, they chanted "Pale hale hale" or "Pale ale ale." What a >coincidence! The direct Hebrew translation of "Pele Heylel" is "Marvelous >Lucifer"!(4)
>
> (Dave, I got this from one of those blasted "anti-mormon" websites, so >if any of this is incorrect, then please correct it.)
>
> I do not accuse the mormon religion of being of Satan lightly...it is a >huge accusation...but there is much evidence of this, the foregoing being >just a glance.
>
>Perry
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >2 - 16
> >
>
>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org
>
>If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg and he will be subscribed.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
