RE: [TruthTalk] Torah & Jewish traditions

[ShieldsFamily]

Perhaps you need to define Jew and Gentile for me.  Jesus is a Jew, so this can’t be a bad or forbidden thing.   A Jew could also be defined as someone with Jewish blood coursing through their veins, or as one of the OT called-out people, or a follower of a religion that denies Jesus as Messiah, and I certainly don’t consider myself either of these things.  However, biblically, Gentile means pagan unbelievers in it’s strictest sense.  So why would I want to identify myself as that? If gentile means not a Hebrew descendant, then I qualify.  But I don’t like calling myself a gentile, and am hesitant to consider myself one.  I’d rather identify with God’s people; a follower of the true Messiah.  I’m not being obtuse; just would really appreciate what you consider scriptural differences and definition.    And does God ever really nullify a covenant He has made in favor of a different one?   I’ll ruminate more upon your post for sure…..   iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:15 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah & Jewish traditions   Izzy, you are misreading me if you think that I am brushing aside "material obedience."  Observing the shadows can and does indeed lead us into a beautiful understanding of the spiritual reality.  That is why they were given, as a schoolmaster for carnal beings.   Let me give you one other "shadow."  This is the aspect that among all the nations of the world, one small nation would be a distinct and peculiar people, set apart from the traditions and ways of the rest of the world.  Now how can that "shadow" be seen, understood and appreciated, if the rest of the world is instructed that they must join that nation and act like them in order to be saved?   Terry has hammered a point home that seems to be lost on some.  He has identified the parties of the covenant.  Get his point, and you will see no contradiction at all between what Paul did in Acts 21 and what Paul wrote in Galatians.  You will only see consistency.  The people who have problems with either passage are those who do not distinguish between Jews and Gentiles.  The same problem that plagues those who think there is no difference between male and female also plagues those who think there is no difference between Jew and Gentile.  Yes, I know, Paul said there was no difference between these groups in Christ, but his point in saying this is a little more narrow else we should all become unisix, dress the same, wear our hair the same, share the same bathrooms, no longer marry, the man would no longer be the head of the woman, his teaching about how the woman should have power on her head makes no sense at all, etc., etc. ... I think you get my point.  In certain contexts there is a difference between Jew and Gentile, and in other contexts there is no difference.   Peace be with you. David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:21 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Torah & Jewish traditions       -----Original Message----- David, I agree completely.  But you seem to err on the side of simply brushing aside the "material obedience" if one wishes to have "spiritual obedience."  Do you believe the “shadows” of something should be done away with, or kept, while understanding the deeper aspects? I tend to believe the “shadows” are very significant especially when we receive understanding of their deeper significance and therefore should not be cast aside for the spiritual. We are both physical and spiritual, and whatever we do in one arena affects the other directly.  We cannot do something in just one dimension.  That is why God gave us the shadows/physical to begin with—to lead us into the deeper truths—but they are still truths, and we ignore them to our own detriment, as that affects us spiritually as well.  izzy   When I speak of "material obedience," I am referring the carnal aspect of obeying it in an earthly, physical way rather than a spiritual way.  For example, not eating bacon might be a material observance, or keeping the seventh day as a day of rest.  These are shadows of a greater spiritual meaning that the law really addresses if we are spiritual enough to appreciate it.   Peace be with you. David Miller.   ----------