DAVEH wrote:
If the faith of a believer is all that is needed to gain
the authority to act in God's behalf, then do you
recognize the faith of the believers of the RCC?
Or....how about the faith of the believers in Mormonism?
Whether or not there are believers either in the RCC or Mormonism is hotly
debated among Protestant believers. The belief that authority rests in the
church hierarchy frustrates faith, and thereby frustrates receiving
authority directly from God. One cannot have faith in Jesus Christ and in
an institutional structure at the same time. I have to admit that the
possibility of Joseph Smith truly having authority with God was very high in
my opinion when I first studied him, for the very simple reason that his
faith clearly was not in the institution of Christianity. This would have
put him in a position to truly receive authority from Jesus Christ.
Unfortunately, my studies of his teachings have shown him to be another
charlatan.
DAVEH wrote:
... it seems illogical to me for you to draw that conclusion
due to the apostles previous receipt of the power of God
as described at the time Jesus ordained them. Don't you
believe that the apostles already had the power of God
prior to Jesus giving Peter the keys in Mt 16? IF your
scenario is correct, Jesus would not have had to give Peter
the authority in the first place....it would have been automatic
due to Peter's belief.
That's like trying to say that an employee automatically gets a promotion at
his job just because he has faithful. No, the faithfulness brings about the
added authority, but it is not automatic. The Lord confers it upon a person
as they show themselves faithful.
DaveH wrote:
Yet Jesus obviously gave something to Peter at that
time due to his belief. Logically, my assertion that
it was a special commission (keys) makes more sense.
But....I do have my LDS bias that reinforces that notion.
I just fail to see how you would build your case on such
a passage. Are there other passages that support your
perspective?
You speak as if I do not believe in ordination. I think you misunderstand
my perspective. The way you characterize me, I would not find any value in
a wedding ceremony, because all you need is love, and then voila, the couple
is automatically married and there is no need to exchange vows or have
witnesses. This is not my perspective at all.
As for another passage, consider John 14:12-14.
John 14:12-14
(12) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that
I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
(13) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father
may be glorified in the Son.
(14) If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
David Miller wote:
The entire church is to inherit the
keys to the kingdom of heaven.
DAVEH:
As you know, that seems to be an illogical conclusion
from my perspective. Those keys were only given
to Peter at that time, and to conclude that it applies
to anybody with faith would bring a lot of confusion
due to many believers of faith of different religious
persuasions may be at odds with how they handle
those keys. Does that make any sense, DavidM?
Your view of the church is different than mine. I see a church in
agreement. You see a church divided.
The church *IS* the body of Christ. Therefore, how can it not have the keys
of the kingdom?
DH wrote:
Perhaps I should ask you how you define keys?
The keys are that which a believer receives which enables him or her to
bring the kingdom of God into reality in this present world.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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