Judy, you are reading an English
translation of a Greek text. The assumption Bill makes is that the Greek
text reads closer to the intended meaning of the passage and should be
preferred to the English rendering. I don't have a problem with this
assumption that he makes. Do you?
Yes I do because if
this text is read in the light of the rest of scripture it's meaning becomes
plain without all of these Greek
linguistic
gymnastics. If he wants to see it that way it's fine with me but don't
slam the Authorized Version for not lining up
with his Greek. I
understand the translators of the Authorized Version were quite proficient in
Greek and their translation
has blessed many people
for hundreds of years.
In the Heb. 10:14 passage that Bill
brings up, the word for sanctified is a derivation of hagiazo (holy /
sanctified) combined with a definite article. Bringing it over directly
into English is a little problematic. In Greek, it transliterates as
"tous hagiazomenous" which is a present passive/middle participle.
Literally, it might come over as "the ones being sanctified" or "those who are
sanctified." There are not any other Greek texts conjugating this word
this way that I am aware of, so I don't think any of us can be
too dogmatic about the right way to translate here. Some of this
comes down to how much you trust the Greek scholars.
My faith is not in
Greek scholars, it is in the Spirit who was sent to lead us into ALL truth
because the scriptures are 'spiritually
rather than
linguisticly" discerned.
In the 1 Cor. 7:14 passage that you
bring up, while the wording looks similar in English, it is different in
Greek. There is no definite article, and the word is parsed as
"hegiasiai." This word here is conjugated as being perfect
indicative passive. This means the Greek puts more emphasis here on the
completeness and finality of the action (being sanctified).
How strange when it
refers to an unbelieving wife it would be complete and final but it is ongoing
when speaking of those being
perfected and
sanctified after receiving Christ. IMO the Greek complicates and
confuses the issue rather than clarifies same.
So while in the English you see "is
sanctified" and "are sanctified" as being similar, the Greek actually
shows a little more difference than this ("hegiasiai" in 1
Cor. 7:14 versus "tous hagiazomenous" in Heb. 10:14) .
Of course, you can also use a
little common sense. Are we not all in a state of being
sanctified? I know you believe that we are. You have said so
yourself many times.
Yes I do believe that
sanctification is an ongoing work of grace in the life of a
believer.
Now all this being said, I also
disagree that this passage would illustrate an error in the KJV. One
might rightly argue that "are sanctified" in English is present passive, but
one might argue that a connotation of present repeating action is lost, and so
they might favor "are being sanctified" as a better translation. The
truth is that neither translation fits exactly. Nevertheless, when we
read the text, it seems to me that we really all agree on what is true, that
we are all sanctified, and we are all in the process of being sanctified, at
the same time.
Good - From what I am
reading am I safe in assuming that the Authorized Version has been exonerated
on this issue anyway David?
Peace be with you.
David
Miller.
Hmmm - Just as I thought, the Holy
Spirit has been fired and men have taken over; men who exalt Greek present
passive verbs..
Are we in the last days with apostasy
and falling away or what?? judyt
Is there someone here who speaks Judy's language that
could maybe explain to her the meaning of a present passive verb?
If she respects you, she may listen. The same
goes for Kevin; he needs your help, too. Thanks, Bill
So this is an example of how
the KJV is in error Bill?
IMO the error is with your
understanding rather than with the text of the KJV translation.
You have read something into the text that is not there and have
made a straw man to knock down. The word sanctification does
not necessarily mean an action being performed; the same word is
used in 1 Cor 7:14 for an unbelieving wife who is sanctified (set apart,
consecrated) by the faith of her husband. In this sense "sanctified"
means something entirely different from what you describe. So IOW "By
one offering Jesus has perfected for ever them that are set apart,
consecrated (or sanctified)."
judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
