Re: [TruthTalk] Theology of violence?

[Dave]

But, it seemed good to me to deflect this discussion from increasing threats toward DH  --   and I still think that the best choice. DAVEH:   I appreciate you trying to moderate the pressure of the situation, Bishop.   I'm just sorry you have had to endure some of the heat that was directed at me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe you should go back and take a look at the context of my invite to Dean, before you get too far down that road.   Secondly,  have we just moved on from my comments about the Temple and the supposed violent encounter Christ had with the money changers?    In the third place  --   I am an expert on OKism  -- being one myself.   I see Dean from that point of view.  He likes the in-your-face style of the SP he associates with (not all SP are of this persuasion) and his judgmental rudeness comes from a deeply felt anger (or "passion") that has allowed him to talk of butt-kicking and the like.      The reason for my involvement after he started talking smack attack is my concern for what might happen next.   I am not one who shrugs his shoulders at threats when, in fact, there might have been something that I could have done about the situation.  I don't know Dean but I read his smack.   And I know that he knows of those who give honor to Paul Hill's solution to the abortion problem.  This is not the normal mouthing off circumstance, at least from my point of view.   Is Dean just talking or is he dangerous?    Does Dean believe  you can kill to protect the unborn?   If he does, it is not a stretch to see him flying across country to protect the honor of someone who was NOT OFFENDEDed.     And what if he and his wife came to visit, here, in Smithville?   I am first and foremost a Child of God.   Whether on the mat or in the front room,  that reality would govern all that I would be doing.  When he and his wife left,   I guarantee that he and his wife would be better for their stay.   I do not turn the pastor thingy off and on.   But, it seemed good to me to deflect this discussion from increasing threats toward DH  --   and I still think that the best choice.    Just don't forget my concerns as expressed in the second paragraph.     I might add that my wife and I would be equally blessed as well.     Now --  back to the whip and Jesus.   Seriously, don't you think it strange that not one single person hit Christ.   Try going into a similar situation with a bunch of Arab types and see what happens!!  Heck,  when I was in college,  I got attacked by an Arab type because I liked the Dodgers !!   But he would have probably left me alone if I had a gun in my hand.   Was that whip the kind that had the little pieces of pottery and metal in it?   Was it a true weapon?    If Christ had the thing in his hand,  how many of the those money changers would go after him?   I think I know the answer !!    Pastor J                       -----Original Message----- From: Charles Perry Locke <cpl2602@hotmail.com> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:31:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Theology of violence? Seriously, John. No drama, please. I am just saying that if we were to look at Deans whole life, as you suggested we do with Jesus' whole life, we might see him differently than as one who has, as you have hyperbolized, a "theology of violence". Besides, did you not invite him to your house hit the ol' mat for a little grappling? How can you castigate him for a "theology of violence" when you have returned in kind?    Perry    >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ol.com  >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  >Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:03:24 -0500  >  >What ARE we talking about? Dean's life or Dean's theology of violence?  >  >-----Original Message-----  >From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  >Sent: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:57:10 -0800  >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  >  >  >And what about the rest of Dean's life?  >  > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ol.com  > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org&nbs p; > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  > >Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:54:59 -0500  > >  > >And what of the rest of His life? What of His death without resistance? > >How did he deal with those who were about to stone the adultness woman? > >What was His attitude toward the Roman pagan slim that held the People of > >God in bondage? When Peter attacked the Roman soldier in the Garden -- > >what about that. What of the fact that we have no other examples of > >violence on the part of Christians in the NT scriptures? What of Stephen > >as he was being stoned? What of Stephens prayer? What of Christ's > >statement about living by the sword? Or of hate toward the others?  > >  > >at the temple -- you don't know what went on in that circumstance except > >that h e took a whip and drove the money changers away. Did He whip the > >money changer or their animals? Did He hit anyone? Why didn't someone > >hit him, Perry? Maybe the whip was for THAT reason - self protection >as >he turned over the tables? That would square much more readily with >His >speech and example than any other opinion. But go ahead and make >more of >the Temple than you can possibly know and then make a rule of >conduct out >of this single incident. "I believe He did it once in His >life which gives >me the right to violence when I see fit.' Some of these >weirdos even >believe it is God's call to kill in the name of the Lord (ala >Paul Hill.)  > >  > >Jesus Christ was not a violent man AND ANYONE WHO BELIEVES OTHERWISE IS > >MORE CONFUSED than any claim against the Mormons.  > >&nb sp; > >You want to develop a theology of confrontation that includes such >ignorant >activity as the underwear thing, will, no one can stop you. You >want to >get violent with those on this list -- actually that can be >stopped.  > >  > >JD  > >  > >-----Original Message-----  > >From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > >Sent: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:14:42 -0800  > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  > >  > >  > >Was Jesus being holy when he made a whip and kicked the money lenders >from >the temple? Was he being holy when he spoke to the pharisee s and >accused >them of having Satan as thei r father? Dean has a pretty high-level >example, >wouldn't you say?  > >  > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ol.com  > > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  > > >Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:09:59 -0500  > > >  > > >Holiness has everything to do with how you treat people and your manner > >of >speech - among other things. Threatening your opponent with physical > > >violence is hardly a sign of holiness.  > > >  > > >-----Original Message-----  > > >From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>  > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > > >Sent: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:07:23 -0800 (PST)  > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  > > >  > > >  > > >Knowing Dean personally, he is not one to feign anything.  > > >He is deeply concerned with holiness and I believe I can testify that >he > >lives it too.  > > >I would not assume anything as far as the mat either.  > > >  > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]ol.com wrote:  > > >  > > >Like I said -- and it is becoming even more obvious: this is not about > > ; >anything but Dean making it clear that he is the to ughest guy on the > >block. > You want to come out here? We can go to the North Gym and roll > >around >on the mat for awhile. I could use a good work out partner. As >far >as >making you shut up -- probably not possible.  > > >  > > >You are welcome to come to the house. In spite of the rhetoric, I think > > >it would actually wind up being a good experience. Bring your wife and > > >suitable attire for the gym. We can make the arrangements off line.  > > >  > > >But stop with the feigned distress over the DH-Izzy situation. You are > > >accomplishing absolutely no good whatsoever.  > > >  > > >jd  > > >  > > >-----Original Message-----  & gt; > >From: Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net>  > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > > >Sent: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:08:49 -0500  > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >----- Original Message -----  > > >From:  > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > > >Sent: 11/26/2005 9:35:52 AM  > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  > > >  > > >  > > >First , your last sentence sounds like any number of people I know. > > >Secondly - I am a hu sband who would defend his wife even to the point of > > >violence. I missed the part where DH spoke to Linda as if she were a > > >whore. Where was that statement? DUH-Tell us of your sexual experiences > > >Izzy-Duh And why are you taking offense at something for which Linda is > > >not? Simple you don't talk to women like that around me-and then there > >are >the sinful overtone. Finally, you have offered advice to a women > >(Linda) >who has asked us all to move on. Did you miss that point? >Sooooo, >why >don't you take her advice and butt out.Did she advice me to >butt out- >or >are you lying again? Why don't you make me butt out mouth.  > > >  > > >Jd  > > >   > > >-----Original Message----- < BR>> > >From: Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net>  > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  > > >Sent: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:05:36 -0500  > > >Subject: [TruthTalk] Dave's Disrespect.  > > >  > > >  > > > cd:My advice is for Izzy to show this to here husband-and let him > > >resolve this matter. Then the snake in the grass will learn respect for a > > >decent women and not to try and speak to her as one would a whore. He >is > >not sorry for anything-as he has no morality.Don't even know right >from > >wrong and apparently neither does a few others on this lis t-no > >discernment >even to seeing no  > > > problem with asking a women such questions-even another mans wife-evil > > >wicked hearted people claiming to be children of God that cannot even > > >receive the milk of the word-and yet defend their ignorance with more > > >ignorance. > [Original Message] > From: Charles Perry Locke > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > Date: > > >11/25/2005 11:06:37 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual > > >Experiences-Charles? > > > John, Izzy opened the door, and has realized > > >that and apologized for it > (maybe you missed that post). It was DH that > > >walked through that door and > took it to the gutter. > > Perry > > > > > ; >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ol.com > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >To: > > >TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual > > >Experiences-Charles? > >Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:50:46 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > >Hey tough guy, it was Linda Shields who open the door to this > >thread >-- > >not DH. > > > > > > > > > >-----Original >Message----- > > >From: Dean >Moore <cd_moore@earthlin  >k.n  > > >et> > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >Se nt: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 >09:01:31 > >-0500 > > ;Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual >Experiences-Charles? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message >----- > >From: Lance Muir > > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >Sent: >11/25/2005 8:31:48 AM > > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual >Experiences-Charles? > > > > > > > >Ahhhhhhhhh and, we wonder over violence >in society! Thanks for the  > > > > >illustration, Dean. > >cd; There are some things that one is just >to > >fight over-My family was > >places under my care and protection-by >God. > >It is my duty to do so even > >against those who have no decent icy >or > >morals to speak to another man wife > >as a whore. > >----- Original > > >Message ----- > >From: Dean Moore > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > > > >Sent: November 25, 2005 08:21 > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy's >Sexual > >Experiences-Charles? > > > > > >cd: You are speaking to the wife >of > >another man-try that with mine and I > >will be on your door step in >a > >couple of days-go ahead and ask her  > > > she will > >be reading your next response! > > > > > >----- >Original > >Message ----- > >From: Dave > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >Sent: > >11/24/2005 11:30:35 PM > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual > > >Ex periences-Charles? > > > > > >RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual > > >Experiences > > > >DAVEH: Do you suppose CPL will know anything about > > >them, Dean!?!?!?! > > ;-) > > > >Dean Moore wrote: > >cd: Where >is our > >monitor? Charles?  > > > > > > >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual Experiences > > > > > > > > >Hardly. J > > > > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave > >Sent: > > >Thursday, November 24, 200 5 12:16 PM > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > > > >Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy's Sexual Experiences > >You know I'll tell! > > > > > > >DAVEH: Wow Izzy......I am rather surprised to hear you say >that! > >But it > >is nice to know you are not so hypocritical that you >would not > >be willing > >to post on TT such personal things as you expect >me to > >share. Now that I > >think about it Izzy, I'm sure it would be >much >more >interesting for TTers > >to hear about your sexual experiences >than >mine. >Do tell! > >:-[ > > > >ShieldsFamily wrote : > > >You know I'll >tell! :-) > > > ; > > > > > >DAVEH: Do you really think it >is appropriate to >discuss such  > > > personal > >things on a public forum that is known for its lack of > > >taste at times? If > >you really want to know the answer to personal > > >questions such as that, > >contact me off-Forum and I'll answer your > > >question. > > > >ShieldsFamily wrote: > >So DO you??? > > > > > > > > > > >I?ve read that you?re supposed to leave them on then, too. > > > > > > >DAVEH: That is not my understanding, nor would I think anybody else > > >(LDS) > >understands it that way. However. ...it is not a topic I've > > >discussed with > >others, nor have I ever heard it discussed in any LDS > > >meetings I've > >attended or in other  > > > official discussions. > > > > There are numerous instances where it > >is >not appropriate to wear them, > >viz., playing basketball, swimming, > >etc. > > > > >ShieldsFamily wrote: > >How about during sex, DaveH? I?ve > >read >that you?re supposed to leave them > >on then, too. True or false? > >izzy > > > > > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, November  > > > 23, 2005 1:31 AM > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >Subject: Re: > > >[TruthTalk] Another darn Questionere! > >The Mormons have to leave them > >on >even while taking a bath-They slide them > >to one side and wash one > > >half of their bodies at a time. > > > >DAVEH: Hmmmmmmm.........I > > >continue to learn by my presence on TT. > >That's one I haven't tried > > >yet, Dean! :-D > > > & gt; Note to Perry: Like I said, I'm here >to learn > ; >what Protestants (and > >Dean, if he isn't a P)  > > > believe. If nothing else, learning that you folks > >believe such > > >things as this is a constant form of entertainment! :-) > > > > >Dean > >Moore wrote: > >Just asking ------- who said anything about >being drunk? >I >mean, you > >guys wave men's underwear around , so why >not chew. >Whatever. > > >cd: You had mentioned me "sobering up" before- I >don't chew > >tobacco-And the > >Mormons claim that their underwear is >Holy-a sign of > >their royal > >Melchizedek Priesthood which is worn under >their clothing > >as we are not > > ;worthy to view these holy objects-They >are easy to & gt;obtain >for the local > >pawn shops as many are getting  > > > rid of them. We hold them up and declare > >that true holiness is to > > >live by the gospel of Christ which is an inner > >cleanliness not an > > >outer cleanliness. The Mormons have to leave them on > >even while taking > > >a bath-They slide them to one side and wash one half of > >their bodies > > >at a time. > > > > > > > >-- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Dave Hansen > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.langlitz.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >If >you wish to receive > > things I find interesting, > > I >maintain six > >email lists... > > JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, > > STUFF, >MOTORCYCLE and > >CLIPS. > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always >with grace, >seasoned >with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer >every man." > >(Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not >want to >receive >posts from this list, send an email to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you >will be unsubscribed. If you have a > >friend who wants to join, tell him to >send an e-mail to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  > > > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with >salt, > >that you may know how you ought to answer  > > > e very man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not > >want >to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.  > >  > >----------  > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > >http://www.InnGlory.org  & gt; >  > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  >  >----------  >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org  >  >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a >friend who wants to join, tell him to sen d an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.    ----------  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org    If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.