It sounds like you are describing the different levels of heaven when you are describing the different levels of hell. DAVEH: Yes, that's the way I prefer to look at it. The effect though is as it is described in the Bible.....a pain that burns without consuming. In effect it is an intense searing of the conscious mind caused by the knowledge that you screwed up! At least that's how I perceive it. LDS theology, as you know, views 3 main levels of heaven, and one level of outer darkness. I believe there are levels within those levels as well. The Lord resides at the top level with those who become perfected as He is perfect. Those separated from him suffer pangs of hell due to their separation from his presence and love. The further the separation, the greater the pain. Outer darkness is about as far away as one can get....which is where Lucifer will be confined with his minions. OD is described in a very descriptively unattractive way, and as such is not a pleasant place to reside. The reason you perceive the different levels as being heaven is because we view mortality as being somewhat equal to the lower level (excluding outer darkness). Which means that many (most) folks will find life after the resurrection to be as good or better than life in mortality. While that may sound good to a lot of people, it is a long way from residing in heaven with the Lord. And knowing that one's pride and refusal to submit to the Lord's will brings a resurrection that is appropriate for all people, will cause the mental anguish for their knowledge of their shortcomings....which will be hell to those who suffer such. That probably doesn't quite answer your question in the detail you requested, but even explaining that which I have will surely anger some TTers who don't want me preaching Mormonism on TT. You probably already know much of what I mentioned above (and more) anyway, DavidM. Now....having said all that, let me explain that the hell I mentioned above is only one aspect of hell....basically, the hell we suffer after the resurrection. There are other facets of hell (based on separation from God) that pertain to the death of the physical body and the inability of the spirits of those who die to get anywhere, so to speak. But....that's another topic that is not pertinent to this discussion. FWIW.....I did a quick search on an LDS apologetics site by Jeff Lindsey, looking for a link to give you as per your request. Instead, I got sidetracked to a google link that is totally unassociated with LDS theology. But I really found it intriguing because they showed a picture of the pamphlet (THE BURNING HELL) I found on my windshield a few years back that got me posting on TT about it way back when I first subscribed. The link is...... http://www.christian-universalism.com/index2.html ........which is not LDS related, and I only offer it as something I found interesting. When I have more time, I'll snoop around the LDS sites for an explanation of hell that might give you a better feel for it than I did above. My perspective is not necessarily the way you will hear it taught in an LDS setting. I just tried to simplify it to give you the basic idea in contrast to your view. David Miller wrote: It sounds like you are describing the different levels of heaven when you are describing the different levels of hell. Can you outline for me your different levels of heaven, and where exactly hell is located in this outline? When I read below, I see you as making hell all but the highest level of heaven. In the past, I had understood you to consider hell only the lowest level, the highest degree of separation from God. I would appreciate a little more detail here, and maybe a link or reference if you have it to a Mormon site that might explain it.Peace be with you. David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hansen To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] David Miller**** Do you believe that the majority of people are cast into hell? Can you help me understand what you are saying when you say that many will be cast into hell? DAVEH: To me there are varying degrees of hell, depending on how close to God you are located....so to speak. Very few will be return to his presence in heaven, IMHO. Therefore the remaining souls will suffer the pangs of hell to varying degrees, depending on how far they are from the love of the Lord. Another way to view it would be for a guy wandering in the desert, cooking under the sun and desperately thirsty (for the love of the Lord). Those who weren't too far from God, can see the oasis and those who are basking in the love found there. Some of that love emanates from the oasis, but not nearly as much as is enjoyed by those who actually live in the oasis. There are others who are so far from the oasis that they receive very little of the love of God, and wander aimlessly through the desert wishing they could enjoy the comfort of the love of the Lord that the oasis provides IF they could only get close to it. Their suffering is worse, as they don't even know the direction to wander to find the Lord. That may be too simplistic an explanation though, but I think it is adequate for this discussion. It is somewhat analogous to your view that there are varying degrees of hell based on how wicked people are judged to be....as some parts of hell are hotter than others, as I remember you explaining a long time ago. As I view it, we differ in that you believe one is literally tossed into flames of fire, whereas I believe those flames are symbolic of the torment we will feel when we are separated from the love of the Lord. We both believe there will be many (far more than those who reach heaven) who suffer that fate. Does that sum up our differences? David Miller wrote: David Miller said he understood DaveH as believing that "not too many" are cast into hell. DaveH wrote: ...I'm not sure where you got that one. Consider it a misunderstanding, as that is not what I believe, but rather quite the opposite. Do you believe that the majority of people are cast into hell? Can you help me understand what you are saying when you say that many will be cast into hell? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... 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