I am not a pacifist, but I am willing to reconsider the position. 
 
From my point of view,  "war" cannot be defended as an action of the Church. 
The remaining collective is the Nation.   Nations do not survive  in the face of a large and threatening military enemy.   If the survival of "my" nation is of   no ultimate importance to God  {let's keep in mind that America is a Gentile and secualr nation to the exclusion of all other considerations), how do I defend a personal involvement in the military establishment?  
 
jd
 
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..on a personal level, the main critique parallels a 'manufactured expedient exemption' ppl like Izzy employ here..E.g., let's see if this doesn't draw .50 caliber fire: 
 
How does one become a better citizen of the two kingdoms at war (acc to JC, as noted, e.g., in Augustine's The City of Godnever even reading about it, never bothering to engage such a student/scholar while continually verbally sniping him to death from some holy hole 'bout a mile and half away? 
 
 
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:54:53 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
perhaps..partic while 'combat' contains the operative myth, below; e.g., when rival gangs engage in combative street level sniping, the police investigate the/ir 'murder(er)s'; however, ppl like Izzy, contrary to their own law/s, require society to invest its moral capital in manufacturing (their) 'murder' an expedient exemption for their particular priorities & purpose/s  
 
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:12:08 -0800 "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Gary, your statement seems to imply that you believe that killing in combat is murder.
>Is that you belief?
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