An apprehension of the cross is so important that it truly makes a
difference between those who are born from above and those who are not.
DAVEH: Do you believe the Primitive Christians had that apprehension?
David Miller wrote:
The power of the cross is found in the "turn the other cheek"
doctrine of Christ. Jesus said that his disciples must take up their
cross and follow him. It is the doctrine of self denial, illustrated
most perfectly by Jesus going to the cross to die for us. Without the
cross, you have just another religion. It is the doctrine of the cross
and its power to bring salvation that makes Christianity unique.
In my opinion, not understanding the cross and the power of the
cross is a very serious error. An apprehension of the cross is so
important that it truly makes a difference between those who are born
from above and those who are not.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:47 AM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Merry Christmas!
I see power in the cross. You see defeat.
DAVEH: The power of the cross as I see it was the ability of it to
actually bring death to Jesus. That is not to say that I don't
think Jesus had any power over the cross to prevent his death from
occurring on it. Quite the contrary.....I think Jesus could easily
have avoided being nailed to the cross, as he could have called legions
of angels to protect him from his enemies. But...that would not have
permitted the plan of salvation to proceed as it had been planned from
before the foundations of the world.
You are right though....I do not view the cross as having any good
power at all. It was a tool of the enemies of Jesus, and he allowed
himself to be subjected to it in order to become the perfect
sacrifice. The power of Jesus is in his resurrection which brought
life, not in the cross which brought death. The cross killed Jesus
just as it killed those who were nailed to it before, since and at the
same time.
Now....you have said that I view the cross as defeating Jesus. I
don't perceive it that way at all. What temporary victory the enemies
of Jesus may have felt by his death on the cross was certainly reversed
by his subsequent resurrection. But his resurrection did not occur on
the cross. From the time Jesus died on the cross and was subsequently
resurrected on the 3rd day thereafter, Jesus experienced hell. By the
time Jesus was resurrected, the cross was old history, so to speak.
Do you think the cross had any power to resurrect Jesus? I'd be
surprised if you do, DavidM. SO.....why do you suggest the cross has
any power?
I view the cross as a symbol of death, whether it is the death of
people buried in a cemetery or the cross worn by Christians or the
cross that adorns Christian edifices which symbolizes the death of
Jesus. It is a symbol of death, which I perceived you to say........
a cross, the symbol of the death of Jesus the Christ.
..........which doesn't seem to different from what I said.
I realize that many Christians use the cross to symbolize Jesus,
effectively their view of his power over the cross. IF he had been
stoned, would those same Christians be wearing a symbol of a stone
around their neck, or adorning their edifices? Or, what if Jesus had
been killed by a spear....say the spear that was used to lance his skin
to make sure he was dead, had the cross not killed him? Would those
same Christians then use a spear as their symbol? Just where does the
power of Christ reside....in the device (whether it be a stone, spear
or cross) used to kill him, or in his innate power as God?
Do you believe Mary or any of the Primitive Christians used the
cross as a symbol in the same way many do today? If not, then why do
some Christians today feel differently than did the Primitive
Christians?
David Miller wrote:
David Miller wrote:
... a cross, the symbol of the death of
Jesus the Christ.
Dave Hansen wrote:
When I suggested similar, it brought a lot of
chastisement. Why do you suppose the difference?
Context. I don't think you understand the value of the cross. You raised
its issue from skepticism concerning what value the symbol had. I raised
the issue from using this symbol to illustrate the victory that Jesus
wrought in the cross. I see power in the cross. You see defeat. Is this
not true?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
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