David, you have misquoted me several times over the past two years. And I understand you more than you apparently know.
But let's move on, shall we. It's going to get nasty and we don't need to do that.
I have an address and phone number. Keep it private.
jd
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> JD wrote:
> > You often have trouble quoting our very words
> > in a given post - and you expect us to believe
> > that you can speak for the likes of Judy Taylor?
>
> I have never misquoted you or anyone else. What you object to is my
> pointing out aspects that escape your own understanding.
>
> JD wrote:
> > I have lost count of the rather important questions
> > I have asked you both, only to be ignored by Judy
> > and watch you get busy doing something else, only
> > to return after the questioning has grown cold and
> > meaningless. You will , no doubt, deny even this
> > -- but it is true, nonetheless.
>
> You are right, JD. I do deny this. I only admit to getting very tired
> repeatin g myself and you not taking the time to read very carefully thought
> out answers.
>
> David Miller.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
>
> You often have trouble quoting our very words in a given post - and you
> expect us to believe that you can speak for the likes of Judy Taylor?
>
> When we have our trist over the Gentiles in Romans 2, you and she both
> insist that these Gentiles must be regenerated (saved - born again) because
> an unsaved Gentile cannot do by nature the things of the law unless that
> "nature" be the "new nature" spoken of elswhere.
>
> You write - Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to
> speak for her? And I am wondering why you do not go and do likewise.
> ; Part of the confusion several of us have with both of you is bond to your
> unwillingness to be clear and consistent with what you actually believe. I
> have lost count of the rather important questions I have asked you both,
> only to be ignored by Judy and watch you get busy doing something else, only
> to return after the questioning has grown cold and meaningless. You will ,
> no doubt, deny even this -- but it is true, nonetheless.
>
> jd
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she
> seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus
> Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there
> were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read. I belie ve
> that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to
> believe.
>
> My belief is probably closer to yours than you think. I do not believe in
> the
> "total depravity" taught by Calvinists and I do believe that noone can come
> to or believe in Christ unless they are drawn by the Father and I understand
> this to happen as the Word of God is preached under the anointing of the
> Holy Spirit who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.
> (John 16:8). So yes, I do believe the unregenerate can make the choice to
> believe.
>
> I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the
> point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born
> again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man
> believe in that which he cannot see?
>
> I believed on and received Jesus at a Street Preacher Rally before I
> understood there was a whole Kingdom that came with Him. Thank you for
> periodically giving your assessment DM. It's encouraging to know that
> not everyone reads and builds straw men to challenge what I write.
>
> In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to
> stop doing something that they have been told is wrong. Unregenerated man
> also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I
> do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw
> man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to
> speak for her?
>
> David Miller.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
>
>
> 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right . You have
> stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good
> explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this
> theological conclusion.
>
> 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft
> quoted (by you) passage "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever."
> I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well.
>
> Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it
> emphatically , not fearing being "set up." I do not mind being responsible
> for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt
> anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously
>
> jd
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and
> longsuffering enough
> to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time
> even though they
> regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's
> warning bought
> them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity.
>
> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have
> to have the
> Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit?
>
> jd
>
> From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of
> God..
>
> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God
> without the Spirit of God?
> jd
>
> From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Death reigned from Adam to Mose s and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's
> day.. So obviously
> the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on
> these people to repent
> and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological
> permission.
>
>
> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law.
> And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from
> the law?
> Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives
> as the
> Jews lived theirs !! jd
>
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course.
>
> I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but
> don't bring God into your folly.
> The pagan Persian City o f Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke
> 11:32) And what do you
> suppose his message to them was?
> From: Judy Taylor
>
> How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all
> it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible
> to repent because of "total depravity" and this comes out of a
> misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved.
>
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> From: Debbie Sawczak
> Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to
> repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which people are
> saved. It is Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Salvation is in him, complete
> with mediation on our behalf. Repentance is therefore our response to the
> greatest news the world has ever heard; it is our response to the good news
> of Jesus Chris t. Amen.
>
> Lance, I now see what you meant today about the exchange bw Bill and David,
> having read the full message from Bill. The above is the crux, isn't it? It
> (esp the part I bolded) reminds me of what Victor said numerous times in his
> Human Person course: I know Christ first of all, before anything else, as my
> Saviour. The accountability, the repentance, arise out of that.
>
> D
>
>
> --
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>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
> how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how
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