Dean, I don't know about "deeper"
level. To me the conflict appears to be between the
fleshly
vs spiritual mind. Jesus told the
religious ppl of his day that they were earthly and earthly
minded
and that he was from heaven ie: In
speaking with Nicodemus about the New Birth he says:
"if
you disbelieve me when I talk to you
about things on earth, how are you to believe if I
should
talk to you about things of heaven? Noone
ever went up into heaven except the one who came
down from heaven, the Son of Man whose
home is in heaven ..."
cd: To me this fits the state of Christianity
(our new state, a Christ-like state)not the lost man following Satan
state that the world lies in .
Yes, a good analogy but we as
Christians are given a measure of the Holy Spirit;
how
crazy does it sound to say Jesus
came into the world with a nature that follows Satan
which is the natural mind and the
same state that the world lies in... Oh but ATST he
walks in the fullness of the Holy
Spirit?
To answer you question: Yes, Jesus was from the seed of
Abraham and therefore took upon himself the flesh of man- and I see no
super substance in sight.
And here is a perfect example of "earthly
mindedness" .. the continuing struggle on TT about
Jesus' flesh and whether or not he had a
carnal nature along with the sperm and blood of
David. Give me a break.
Children of Abraham are those who walk in the faith of
Abraham.
and the seed of promise are spiritual
seed. He's got his sperm and flesh spread all over
the
Arab nations for goodness
sake.
I allow that he is wholly God and wholly human
Now what exactly does the above
mean? What does God look like and what does it mean to
be
wholly human? Noone in this
generation saw or handled Jesus after the flesh and neither
did
the generation that came up with this
specious phrase. I understand he walked about in a
flesh body. I am not a gnostic claiming
he was an ethereal spirit. It is giving him a
fallen
nature that I object to and I can not
understand how adult ppl who are (hopefully) in
their
right mind can not see the conflict
between being "fallen in the first Adam" and pure
and
holy with the fullness of the Holy Spirit
(that is the Spirit without measure) .. He was not a
raving
schizophrenic.
with the understanding that by claiming Humanity- I am
referring to the state we are in as Christians and that Christ's struggles
and sufferings come from this nature as opposed to Cain's evil
nature-which therefore is Satan's nature which allow for no struggle
against sin- of course I personally believed he took on a Godly
nature later on-I am speaking of Cain-of course- not Satan :-).
There is no record Dean that Jesus ever
struggled against sin (as in a sin nature) or that he
was
ever sick, halt, or maimed because of
generational iniquity and there was plenty of it in
David's
family tree. His struggle was
against "sinners" and at Gethsemane his obedience was
tested
by the prospect of laying his life down
and taking upon Himself all of this mess. That is how
he
understands it. He didn't live it
in his own life experience. He lived a life of love, healing and
deliverance.
cd:
Hebrews 2:18: For in that he
himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are
tempted.
We have on record that he was
tempted in the wilderness in the same three areas
A&E
were in the garden; where they
flunked, he passed that test. Then he was tempted in
the
garden of Gethsemane not to obey
the Father and he overcame there. All the rest is
pure
speculation.
Clark
wrote:
Heb 2:18 - For in that he himself hath
suffered - The maxim on which this verse is founded is the
following: A state of suffering disposes persons to be compassionate, and
those who endure most afflictions are they who feel most for others. The
apostle argues that, among other causes, it was necessary that Jesus
Christ should partake of human nature, exposed to trials, persecutions,
and various sufferings, that he might the better feel for and be led to
succor those who are afflicted and sorely tried. This sentiment is well
expressed by a Roman poet: -
Me quoque per multas similis fortuna labores
Jactatam hac demum voluit consistere terra:
Non ignara mali, miseris succurere
disco.
Virg. Aen. i., v. 632.
"For I myself like you, have been distressd,
Till heaven afforded me this place of rest;
Like you, an alien in a land unknown,
I learn to pity woes so like my own."
Dryden.
"There are three things," says Dr. Owen, "of which tempted
believers do stand in need:
1. Strength to withstand their temptations;
2. Consolations to support their spirits under
them;
3. Seasonable deliverance from them.
Unto these is the succor afforded by our High Priest suited;
and it is variously administered to them:
1. By his word or promises;
2. By his Spirit; (and, that
1. By communicating to them supplies of grace or spiritual
strength;
2. Strong consolation;
3. By rebuking their tempters and temptations);
and
3. By his providence disposing of all things to their good and
advantage in the issue." Those who are peculiarly tempted and severely
tried, have an especial interest in, and claim upon Christ. They,
particularly, may go with boldness to the throne of grace, where they
shall assuredly obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Were
the rest of the Scripture silent on this subject, this verse might be an
ample support for every tempted soul.
I am also allowing Christ,s divinity for the
entire time he walked the earth- but I do not allow for Him
to not be wholly God and to not be wholly Human .
Again I ask you Dean - what is wholly God
and wholly human? Explain it to me. What does it
look
like? People just parrot it all over the place because it
is supposed to be "orthodox" Who
cares if it makes sense or
not.
cd:He- not "it". He Look just like a
beautiful man completely filled with the Holy Spirit Judy- beyond
measure.
When I say "it" I mean Wholly God
and Wholly human. Like - what does love look like, what does justice
look like?
I also allow Christ to be created a little lower than the
Angles in His divinity for the purposes of Death as even Angel cannot be
killed-but I contend fallen man is much lower than
Angles-of course one can also argue that there are also fallen
Angles and at this time I am not going there. Does this answer your
questions- or are there others Bill?
Dean I hope you understand that I am
saying this in love. You have spiritual insight some
of
the others don't have and I hate to see
them trying to put you into some theological box or
other. He was a flesh human being -
just a little lower than angels for the suffering of
death.
He is now crowned with glory and honor
- What's wrong with letting God be God and
every
man a liar.....
cd: I accept it in love Judy,thank you-nor do I
want to be opposed to you-I just want to express the truth that I know.
The only liars would be those opposed to truth-I see non here doing
that-they are only a stubborn lot-excluding the
Mormons.
Thanks Dean; I hope we are
communicating
Grace and Peace to you.....
judyt
