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There you have it "back up what YOU say" rather than adjust yourself to
what
God says by gaining understanding and having your own mind renewed by His
Word. judyt
Can't we all though, Dean? EVERYONE (even Lance
when pressed) can back up that which she/he says that the Bible says. Please
tell me that you know that, Dean?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 07, 2006 07:31
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Sent: 2/7/2006 6:48:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Dean says "I AM RIGHT"!! The 'mantle' has
been passed from DM to CD.
cd: Lance I can back up what I state with the
bible that makes me righteous therefore I can say I am right.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 06, 2006 16:58
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/6/2006 7:47:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
I took those thing you mentioned
in the above and compared them to commandments and found none of them
were sin-unless taken into excess.
That's the point, Dean. As
soon as you give people the power to take away salvation, they start
making up ways of doing it.
--------------------------
cd: Who would give people power to take
one salvation away? Salvation is a personal issue between God and
man-as such it is untouchable for other people.
----------------------------
Thank you for your
concern. I am open to just about anything, but over the years certain
excursions have proven to be less fruitful than others. I used to
think this debate -- Calvinism v Arminianism, with its different forms
-- was the most important in-house debate for Christians. I pursued it
with gusto -- from both sides :>) I can see now how little fruit it
beared. I don't want to squander more friendships on secondary
issues.
I think Jesus Christ and
getting to know him is where we need to spend our
time.
----------------------------------
cd: And if I am right?And I
am. What then? Bill for some reason I think you know what I am
saying to be the truth-you are to smart not to know
this.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006
4:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/5/2006 5:51:44 PM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk]
cd: You are using the work
"seal" wrong Bill. ...
In all respect,
Dean, yours is an exercise in futility with me. I grew up
believing that Christians could lose their salvation; in fact, I grew
up believing that I had lost mine on many occasions, and for many
years I believed my dad had gone to hell because of "sins" he was
still committing when he passed (for instance, he still liked to
have a beer every now and then, and he still enjoyed playing
cards to pass the time). Well, I have since discovered the amazing
grace of God in Jesus Christ, and I love him -- and, quite
frankly, it'll be a cold day in HELL before I'll go back to
anybody's performance-based, DAISY approach to the Gospel.
It just ain't gonna happen. And so, if you want to spell
it out for the "benefit" of others, that is your prerogative; but
please don't do it on my account, because I won't be listening.
La-la-La-la-La-La-
cd: Bill I respect your right
to not listen and will withdraw in this private forum-But I will
leave you with one thing. I also know what it is like to live
with the constant fear of causing harm to my relationship with
God-I never want to go back to that-that is why many people are in
mental hospitals.But at some point in my misery God gave me a
revelation and it stemmed from the passage to "work out your own
salvation with fear and trembling". I took those thing you
mentioned in the above and compared them to commandments and found
none of them were sin-unless taken into excess.That is my point
for promoting a clear understanding of the commandments as to
break one can be forgiven if the remorse is there and the
repentance-then one goes on with life trusting in Christ to
mediate that wrong.The wonderful part is that he can mediate
anything a Christian would do:-) But to be evil and to continue on
in sinning against God and others is a different matter
entirly.Believing in keeping God's co mmandments with fear has not
bounded me to suffering but has instead freed me to a better life
and helped me to relax-but also to watch myself. This is not only
brought joy to my life but also brought a closer relationship with
God.
I have found to all
those things I had been taught wasn't sin as I took the time to
study what the commandments were to and understand that some
things take time to grow into.I am sorry to hear that you believe
you father went to hell over such things. To help clear up any
misunderstand I will leave you with 2 verses to consider that
should cause freedom in your life.
cd:Notice in the below that
these commandment breakers not only taught wrong but lived wrong
and still made it to heaven.Why -I think because they lived in
ignorance of what the specific commandment was-or that they hadn't
been given a clear indication of what the commandment included.For
me to believe one went to hell is to judge without complete
understanding for there is more there then what it would seem to
be-I believe you did this with your father.
Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom
of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach
them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom
of heaven.
cd:Bill this below is the joy and
freedom I am speaking about-Godly fear without being
grieved.
1Jo 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
cd: I would ask you to do this Bill. Do
you have a words search for the bible? If so- type in commandments
and look how many times they are mentioned in the new
testiment.Again none of us know the entire bible so we learn from
each other-there are many thing you have written about that I want
to question you about to learn from you-but as we are in this
issue- I hesitate to bring up a new topic. We learn from each
other Bill and there is no shame of not knowing-the shame is to
reject the truth.
Respectfully,
Thank you for the respect and for
this as I understand you better-may God bless you Bill.You were in
my prayers last night and will be there
tonight.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/5/2006 12:51:03
PM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk]
Bill do you see any fault
in the below?
Dean,
here is a quotation from that passage: "If they (the
frames and feelings) are not in us, it is a sure sign
that though the wilderness became a pool, the pool is become a
wilderness again."
I can agree
that a believer can apostate to the point that God will take
him home, so to speak, so as to prevent him from irreparable
destruction. But I am not convinced that a true believer can
lose his or her salvation, once having received the
guarantee and seal of the Holy Spirit; for that
is no longer the Christian going back on his word; it is
God.
----------------------------------------------
cd: You are using the
work "seal" wrong Bill. God uses the seal of the Holy
Ghost to mark his property.The quarantee is that if we
walk in Holiness we will be accepted by God.Why test something
that has already been guaranteed for service and heaven?We
Christians are tested.
Eph 4:30 And
grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of
redemption.
Whereby ye are sealed - The Holy Spirit in
the soul of a believer is Gods seal, set on his heart to
testify that he is Gods property, and that he should
be wholly employed in Gods service. It is very likely that
the apostle had in view the words of the prophet,
Isa_63:10 : But they rebelled, and Vexed his Holy Spirit;
therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and fought against
them. The psalmist refers to the same fact in nearly the same
words, Psa_78:40 : How oft did they
Provoke him in the wilderness, and Grieve him in the desert!
Let every man, therefore, take heed that he grieve not the
Spirit of God, lest God turn to be his enemy, and fight
against him.
Webster Dictionary: Seal
6. To mark with a stamp, as an evidence of standard
exactness, legal size, or merchantable quality. By our laws,
weights and measures are to be sealed by an officer
appointe and sworn for that purpose; and lether is to be
sealed by a like officer, as evidence that it has been
inspected and found to be of good quality.
7. To keep secret.
Shut up the words, and seal the book. Dan 11. Isa 8.
8. To mark as ones property, and secure from
danger.
9. To close; to fulfill; to complete; with up.
10. To imprint on the ; as, to seal instruction.
11. To inclose; to hide; to conceal.
12. To confine; to restrain.
cd: Consider the parable of the sower:He heard the word of
Christ, and recieved Christ-endured for a while-falls away
when it got tough.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed
into
stony places, the same is he that
heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when tribulation
or
persecution ariseth because of the word, by and
by he is offended.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday,
February 04, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/3/2006
10:55:41 PM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk]
It may be helpful to
distinguish between duality and
dualism.
cd; Yeah what he
said:-)
I'll
defer to John's comments for now, Dean, as his are
insightful and I do not wish to devote the time to the
topic which would be needed to draw out the
distinctions. Suffice it to say that (1) I see two
distinct natures at work in the person of Christ prior to
his death and resurrection: a human nature, replete with
all the limitations commensurate with fallen humanity; and
a Divine nature, which is fully God. (2) I also see two
distinct natures at work in his person after the
resurrection: the same Divine nature as before, along
with a new, glorified human nature. (3) As it pertains to
us as Christians, I see two distinct natures at work in
our members: an old fallen nature which refuses to stay
down (if you will allow some latitude with this language);
and a new nature which is that of the resurrected Christ,
as ministered to us by the Holy Spirit. Moreover, (4) I
believe that the old nature will be erased in our
resurrection, never again to rear its ugly h
ead; that will leave us with but one nature,
the same nature which we received from Christ in the
new birth.
Dean, I
hope this makes sense and helps you to understand how
I can find agreement with David on the topic of
dualism, without desiring to delve into a detailed
discussion on its distinctions in a separate
thread.
-------------------------------
cd: Bill I can agree with
yours-and Johns- presentation and of dualism in the
brethren for a time. But I also feel one must allow for
the guidance of the Holy Spirit to stronger levels of
Holiness that will press the old man into total subjection
for this is pleasing to God. Love would be the domination
word for this as it is the domination emotion for us
Christians. With love I will not get angry for being
struck -with love I will not lust for the scantly dressed
women my heart will pull back from that sin-love is the
only way to fulfill the law of loving my neighbor as
myself.Love will root out all sin in the flesh.As we grow
in sanctification we are growing in love to where even
dualism is no longer a factor for me as my union is with
the father, Son ,and the Holy Ghost.Bill do you see any
fault in the below?
J. Wesley
wrote:
2Pe 3:18 - But grow in grace -
That is, in every Christian temper. There may be, for a
time, grace without growth; as there may be natural life
without growth. But such sickly life, of soul or body,
will end in death, and every day draw nigher to it. Health
is the means of both natural and spiritual growth. If the
remaining evil of our fallen nature be not daily
mortified, it will, like an evil humour in the body,
destroy the whole man. But "if ye through the Spirit do
mortify the deeds of the body," (only so far as we do
this,) "ye shall live" the life of faith, holiness,
happiness. The end and design of grace being purchased and
bestowed on us, is to destroy the image of the earthy, and
restore us to that of the heavenly. And so far as it does
this, it truly profits us; and also makes way for
more of the
heavenly gift, that we may at last be filled with all the
fulness of God. The strength and well - being of a
Christian depend on what his soul feeds on, as the heal th
of the body depends on whatever we make our daily food. If
we feed on what is according to our nature, we grow; if
not, we pine away and die. The soul is of the nature of
God, and nothing but what is according to his holiness can
agree with it. Sin, of every kind, starves the soul, and makes it
consume away. Let us not try to invert the order of God in
his new creation: we shall only deceive ourselves. It is
easy to forsake the will of God, and follow our own; but
this will bring leanness into the soul. It is easy to
satisfy ourselves without being possessed of the holiness
and happiness of the gospel. It is easy to call these
frames and feelings, and then to oppose faith to one and
Christ to the other. Frames (allowing the _expression_) are
no other than
heavenly tempers, "the mind that was in Christ." Feelings
are the divine consolations of the Holy Ghost shed abroad
in the heart of him that truly believes. And wherever
faith is, and wherever Christ is, there are these blessed
frames and feelings. If they are not in us, it is a sure
sign that though the wilderness became a pool, the pool is
become a wilderness again. And in the knowledge of Christ
- That is, in faith, the root of all. To him be the glory
to the day of eternity - An _expression_ naturally flowing
from that sense which the apostle had felt in his soul
throughout this whole chapter. Eternity is a day without
night, without interruption, without
end.
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