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I saw the denial in the last paragraph but then you go into all this
relational business about communion
with creation and perichoresis between the trinity etc. which, so far as I
am concerned is nothing but
3rd or 4th century speculation. How can "fallen man" understand
God? We know nothing except what
the Spirit reveals by way of The Word and if a "dancing god" were valid, he
would have been validated to
more than one generation independently. judyt
Judy, I patiently wait for you to actually read
one of my posts for what it says. You may never agree with it, but you
ought to at least try to deal with its meaning. I have in no way denied that
God is "Father" throughout, nor have I argued that he is a mother. How
ridiculous! I cannot help but think it disingenuous of you to suggest
that I have. If you could be honest here, you would realize that I do not get
"female gender" out of any of it, and that that is the point of my
argument.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:14
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness
(jd 2 cd)
Bill it is not "creating anything in our own image" to say what God
says about Himself and He calls Himself
a FATHER, never a mother. How anyone can get "female" gender
out of that I will never know. Using similes
to explain love and caring doesn't change anything. The sad thing
is how far we have fallen in not being
willing to accept His Truth as is. judyt
Dean insists > To have a
masculine quality is to be a male.
Dean, are you willing to put your
proposition to the test? Isaiah 42.13 says
that "the LORD shall go forth like a mighty man; He
shall stir up His zeal like a man of war. He shall cry out, yes, shout
aloud; He shall prevail against His enemies." Does this verse stand
as indisputable proof that God is a male? It certainly attributes
masculine qualities to him: after all, one cannot dispute the
fact that this verse likens him to a mighty man and a man of
war. If your proposition is correct, Dean, we would
have to conclude, based upon this verse alone, that God is indeed male.
But what if the Bible attributes feminine qualities to God: by the same
logic, wouldn't that make God female, also? While you're considering that
question, let us read the very next verse: " I have held My peace a
long time, I have been still and restrained Myself. Now I will cry like a
woman in labor, I will pant and gasp at once." The Lord groaning like a
woman in labor: surely there isn't anything more feminine than the cries
of a woman in labor. Or how about this: "As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you"
(Isa 66.13). Surely you would agree with me, Dean, that to be like a mother who
comforts her child is to display certain feminine qualities. Or what about
this: "You neglected the Rock who begot you, and forgot the God who gave
birth to you" (Deu 32:18). Dean, the verb (chayal) used
of God's giving birth in this verse is otherwise used in Scripture
only of women in labor.
So what do you think, Dean: Do these
feminine qualities make God female? May I answer for you? Of course it
does not. These are similes, comparisons. They speak not of God's
gender or sexuality but his relationship with creation. God is
not male, just as he is not female. AND to claim one in abstention to the
other is to neglect the other as being every bit as truthful and
descriptive of our God. I am saying, let those comparisons depict his
relationship with humanity and not his gender. In Deuteronomy
4.15-16 God tells his people what he thinks of them creating him in
their image: " Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no
form when the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the
fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image
in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female." We need to be
careful, too, lest in our language for God we make of him something
he is not.
Dean, please do not think when I
defend Friesen that I think of God as being in the least bit female, or
both male and female, as opposed to male only. I do not. When we
read that God created humans both male and female in his image, this is
not a reference to God's gender; it speaks instead to his nature as a
relational being, a being-in-communion: the Father with the Son and the
Son with the Father, in and through the Holy Spirit. That being so, there
is no "image of God" in humanity apart from relationship: the image
of God is persons in relationship with others persons and God himself. It
is that which reflects his glory.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006
8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Rightousness (jd 2 cd)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/7/2006 10:15:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Rightousness (jd 2 cd)
cd: Is Jesus male or female John/Lance/Bill-If he is God
as you say what is he?
Jesus is a man, Dean, and he is God --
two natures in one person. Please stop confusing the two.
You create God in Adam's image, and
Judy calls us earthly minded: what a joke! Have you considered how
close you are getting to a doctrine which claims that God
the Father came down and had physical-sexual intercourse with
Mary? You do claim he is male, don't you? That's like saying, since he
has the equipment, why didn't he use it? This is ridiculous. "Male" is
a physical/biological term. "Father" is a relational term, the same
with "Son." You don't have to confuse the two. Yes, sometimes
these terms coincide, but they are not requited to. Please,
brother, stop with the accusations and smears (what has gotten
into you?!), and just consider for a moment what you are suggesting:
that God, being Spirit, has to have male attributes, over
against female or a mixture of both -- as if he must have
something between his legs or he can't be God. My gosh, people,
he is Spirit; he is neither male, nor female -- nor both.
Stop with the foolishness.
Bill
cd: I realize you guys will not accept
the Webster definition for the meaning of English words- as the rest
of the world does- and have developed a whole new
language but that is what I am using. To have a masculine quality
is to be a male. God doesn't have a sexual organ as one is not needed
in heaven as He can create humans from rocks or bones and still
be the provider for the family as is the Father of a family. Thank you
for the using words like silly-foolish and such like as you are only
verifying my position in Jesus Christ and building my future:-)
Notice # 4 if you are able-in the English language one can be male
without the organ .Hence a masculine spirit is a male spirit-What
are you not getting Bill-is all that dancing around making you
tired?
Masculine
M`ASCULINE , a. [L. masculinus, from masculus, mas.]
1. Having the qualities of a man; strong; robust; as a
masculine body.
2. Resembling man; coarse; opposed to delicate or soft; as
masculine features.
3. Bold; brave; as a masculine
spirit or courage.
4. In grammar,the masculine gender of words is that which
expresses a male, or something analogous to it; or it is the gender appropriated to males, though not always
expressing the male sex.
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