RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens

[ShieldsFamily]

In your case, jd.  In your case, indeed. iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:29 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens   Back atcha on that one,  Shields.  Where is that divine time limit?   Under the pickle?   It sure isn't to be found anywhere else.    jd   -------------- Original message -------------- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, the obvious truth is that the Lord allows for BABIES in Christ to have a season of growing up.  You are far beyond that point, and look quite ridiculous in diapers. iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens   As I said before,  you confuse the 3rth chapter with what is going on in the 5th.  Why?   jd   -------------- Original message -------------- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   You do it all the time, though, don’t you?  Why did Paul say to turn the fornicator over to satan? Look it up and you might be surprised.  iz   On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:49:54 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is no time limit in the scriptures, is there.  Further,  Paul certainly thought that the carnal babe in Christ  -   a significant portion of the Corinthian congregation, by the way  -   had been around long enough to have moved on, didn't he.   Yet,  they were still babes.  The implication?   They have all the time in the world to get it right.   Tough to argue with scripture, isn't it. jd   From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> And how long do you allow Believers to be “babes in Christ”, jd? Until the day they die? They will never get delivered if they are continually treated, and fed, like babies—on Pablum.  Coddling sin results in spineless, wimpy, self-absorbed babies.  izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens   Like I said before  -- there is a place for the carnal believer   (I Cor 3:1ff.) To deny this is to deny the true gospel of Christ.    jd   -------------- Original message -------------- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Amen, Judy.  Often we blame the messenger when someone runs away from the church, when the fault lies in the stony heart of the one who wouldn’t receive the message.  Hopefully they won’t wait until Judgment Day to realize that the message to depart from fornication was spoken for their own sakes.  Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:24 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens       Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens   Well, since I'm being asked for a response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they live.  In my experience with people, including believers by the way, struggle with sin is common.  By the way, people are so much more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc.  These are way harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the church so much.  I pray that we may see these situations with the heart of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough.  We have many hu rting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual relationships etc.  It is so important to be the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements in mind whether they are in the church or not.  A couple of instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from the bank where I work.  As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about how he used to go to church in England and considers himself a believer in God and Chri st but would no longer go to a church anymore because of the questions about h is relationship with my friend and the fact that they were living together.  He began to share his hurts about this situation and then we got into one of the best discussions I've ever had on the book of Job.  He relates a lot to Job and the judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his life when they should have been listening and loving him and not judging him.  How wonderful at the end of the book when Job not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him.  Great victory there and much to be learned from that story.    What is Joanna saying is learned here and why would one compare openly shacking up publicly while claiming to be a believer with Job's problems?  Job's friends were accusing a "righteous man" who Satan had permission to afflict for a season.  Their judgment had no basis so it was sinful. OTOH fornicators don't inherit God's Kingdom so why would speaking the truth about Joanna's friend's situation be wrong?  It may be offensive to those who are involved with and who like fornicating. The boyfriend continues on the downward spiral of sin. He is presently hanging on to resentment which will eventually result in bitterness which defiles many others....    Another situation I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who is pregnant and has come to our church for shelter.  While she loves the Lord and clings to His love at this hard time in her life, she is also still involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right now and realizes her situations are not perfect.  I have just chosen as a youth ministry leader to walk beside her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her and let her make her choices...letting her know God's great love just as she is.  I feel as if as a church, if we come out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us.& amp; amp; amp; nbsp; Sure life will not be black and white but it will be interesting and beautiful...as diverse as each person's dna and personality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers!  I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the conversation!!  All the best to all of you...Roll up your sleeves and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will pop up in the most surprising places!!  My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]   if any of you care to contact me at any time!  Thank you!      Joanna's logic escapes me; I have no problem with loving the sinner but let's get real.  If this girl loves the Lord and clings to him it goes without saying that she would be willing to part with the sin that got her into this mess and either marry the boyfriend or leave him be; if she is not willing to do this then what would make one assume she is open to listen to the Word of God?  As a believer it is Joanna's responsibility to warn her.  I see not future in giving ppl false hope.  These sinners need to learn the "fear of God" which will always cause one to "depart from evil"