----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 14, 2006 01:02
Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10
years speaks on believing teens
While I agree completely with what you are saying...it is also not our place
to point out people's sins. May they see righteousness in our lives and be
drawn to a life lived that speaks volumes..much more that words ever
could. Francis of Assissi said well: Preach the gospel and use words when
necessary. The earlier e-mail I sent was about a couple of
encounters...which ended up in some substantial conversations. I hope that
a seed may have been planted and will take root eventually and bear fruit.
But I am not naiive enough to think that I will see or be involved in that
entire process. I must do my part and then move on in faith, praying and
trusting that God will do that miraculous work of transformation in people's
lives that He always does. I ran a youth group here in Mississauga years
ago where I had a friend of one of our young people from the church show up
stoned out of her mind. I knew that everyone was watching how I would
handle that as a youth leader. It wasn't easy but I wanted her to stay and
did not chide her for being out of it...or not listening...or interrupting my
lesson etc.. I continued to invite her out and she continued to
come..sometimes in a mind-altered state. I eventually found out that she
was dating a drug-dealer and as we talked I discovered that her mother had
just become a Christian. She also confessed once in our group that her
mother was her greatest role model and she admired her! I knew that God
was working in the life of this young woman. One day when I went over to
her place to invite her out for coffee, she couldn't wait to ask me a ton of
questions about the Bible, Jesus, faith etc...We talked for hours that
night. It was just another "coffee"..and yet it wasn't. People
change when God wants them to. She was utterly hungry for truth and probed
more and more. We finally went home and a few days later she not only
broke up with her drug-dealer boyfriend, witnessed to him, started going to
church, gave her life to God, got baptized, attended Redeemer University and is
now a Christian counsellor. Her cousins have become Christian
through her witness and still contact me once in a while to get together.
Last summer, I had the privilege of attending her wedding to a wonderful
Christian guy. I could go on and on about many young people like
her. I have learned that often when I am least expecting it people will
change. All of our words and judgements and pointing of sin in their lives
is not what draws them. God's love and us living out that love in our
lives draws them..and they will come to Him in their own time and way.
There are young people out of that exact same youth group that I am still have
"coffees" with! And will continue to...even when they are not spiritually
hungry YET... I feel it is so important to be faithful to people and pray them
into the kingdom...not talk them into it. They know what I live for and
they can see it and that's enough. And I have this feeling that they will
know God in their own time. They are just on a journey of finding how life
is empty without Him. It is during this time that we must stay faithful to
them. Just some thoughts...
Joanna
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Joanna"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Joanna
Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens Date:
Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:44:40 -0500
----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 12, 2006 08:45
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years
speaks on believing teens
Lance, from
the small piece below Id say Joanna has a heart of gold. I agree that
rushing to judgment is one way to chase unbelievers away, and is not what
Jesus did except with those who were religious hypocrites. First one
must love and befriend, as she obviously does. But, as I told JD, we
must also speak truth if we are to be ambassadors of Christ, just as Jesus
did. He loved, He befriended, but He never hesitated to call sin a sin
because He loved those He befriended enough to want to lead them to freedom
from sin, as that is what ultimately will destroy our relationship with
Him. That was His entire objective in dying on the cross, of course.
Tough love is much harder for us to give than soft love. Tough love
isnt harsh and angry; it is just the kind of love that pulls people towards
the truth, even when it is tempting to gloss over the hard issues. Sin
is the elephant in the room; do we love people so much that we pretend it
isnt there, or do we really love them enough to address the obvious? The
fleshly Believer takes the easy path of just loving and being loved, while
the Spirit-filled Believer uses the truths of the Word to deliver the captives
from sin as well as unbelief. Like being a parent, a Christian mentor
always holds up the goal and then walks with you towards it. Poor
parents are those who give love, love, love, and never balance that with
self-discipline and hard workthe children are ruined for life by their own
selfishness and laziness. Jesus defined our goal as His disciples: Luke 5:
32 I came not
to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. That, of course,
is the issue I continually have with those of the liberal Christian
persuasionthey have no fear of sin, for themselves or others. They
dont realize that sin is what truly ails us. This is a hollow gospel
that allows many to die in their sins. Izzy
John 8:21
Then said Jesus
again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your
sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lance
Muir Sent: Saturday, March
11, 2006 12:05 PM To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams -
friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens
Well, since I'm being asked for a
response on this...my initial feeling is that we need to live in the real
world having contact with real people...perhaps listen a little more to others
and how they live. In my experience with people, including believers by
the way, struggle with sin is common. By the way, people are so much
more harsh on visible sins such as addictions to alcohol, pornography, drugs
etc...whereas I believe Jesus always looked deeper into our hearts and spoke
to much that was invisible to many...such as self-righteousness, judgement
towards others, jealousies, religious obsession. etc. These are way
harder to weed out of our lives than outer behaviours that seem to upset the
church so much. I pray that we may see these situations with the heart
of God, listening and dealing with others on a very real level which
unfortunately is so often tucked away and not talked about enough. We
have many hurting people in our churches who are deeply addicted to many
non-christian behaviours...but rather than judge...it may be much better to
listen, to learn and to work out the deeper rooted hurts and issues that cause
people to lose themselves in the worlds of pornography, alcohol, sexual
relationships etc. It is so important to be the kind of Christian that
is listening to others with an open attitude and no pre-conceived judgements
in mind whether they are in the church or not. A couple of
instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last Saturday when I
actually popped by my friend's house...co-worker from the bank where I
work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk about
how he used to go to church in England and considers himself a
believer in God and Christ but would no longer go to a church anymore
because of the questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact
that they were living together. He began to share his hurts about
this situation and then we got into one of the best discussions I've
ever had on the book of Job. He relates a lot to Job and the
judgement his well-meaning friends brought to him during a rough time in his
life when they should have been listening and loving him and not
judging him. How wonderful at the end of the book
when Job not only comes into a deep trust with God but God also invites
him to pray for the very friends that incessantly accused him. Great
victory there and much to be learned from that story. Another situation
I am reminded of is happening in my church right now with a young teenager who
is pregnant and has come to our church for shelter. While she
loves the Lord and clings to His love at this hard time in her life,
she is also still involved with her boyfriend outside of marriage right
now and realizes her situations are not perfect. I
have just chosen as a youth ministry leader to walk beside
her, with no judgments given, and just let the Word of the God speak to her
and let her make her choices...letting her know God's great
love just as she is. I feel as if as a church, if we come
out of the little religious bubble we've allowed ourselves to be in...much
awaits us. Sure life will not be black and white but it will
be interesting and beautiful...as diverse as each person's dna
and personality is...it is in these simply unique ways that God does
touch and change each life...not in cookie-cutter ways or via textbook
answers! I hope this helps somewhat...would love to continue the
conversation!! All the best to all of you...Roll up your sleeves
and get into the amazing mix of life with others...God will pop up in the
most surprising places!! My e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
if any of you care to contact me at any time! Thank you!
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