I found DM's own explanation of what he thinks to be quite clear. Maybe you could ask him to restate it in Canada-ese? :-) iz
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? Iz:Firstly, I WAS referring to myself and, NOT to David. Will you, kindly, restate David's position in your own words? I know that there are numerous 'readings' of Genesis 1 - 11. The writers of Gen 1 - 11 meant something in what they wrote. There exists a reality concerning all of the matters addressed in Gen 1 - 11. There are evolutionists who are Christians. There are various kinds of creationists who are Christians. The majority of Christians simply adopt a don't know/don't care position. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: March 17, 2006 00:17 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? Lance, in all kindness may I submit to you the possibility that YOU might be the one with the "cranial density" problem? I found DM's statement to be quite lucid. izzy -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? Lance, upon reading David's post below, exhibits 'cranial density' his own self. Though I'd thought we would be further ahead, we're not. Why not submit this to David Miller for a rewrite? He's good at that sort of thing :). ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: March 16, 2006 11:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? > My understanding of Gen. 1-11 is not going to be exactly the same as > Judy's > in the sense that if I wrote a commentary on the chapters and then Judy > did > the same, they would differ much in the way that the different gospel > accounts differ from one another. However, if we are both filled with the > same Spirit, we will hear one another and receive from one another such > that > through our communion and fellowship with each other, we would easily come > to speak the same thing about these passages. We might even continue to > emphasize different points within the text, but there is this work of God > within both of us that is bringing us to a unity of knowledge as well as a > unity of faith (which is based upon knowledge). > > Now much of this concerns knowledge that comes through the Spirit. > Sometimes people speculate about issues with the mind, especially about > these passages that you mention. Such speculations may diverge greatly, > but > such is not really important in the grand scheme of things. From my > perspective, it seems to me that Judy does not do a lot of this > speculating > and probably sees little value in it. I enjoy speculating and considering > different possibilities of truth that might coincide with the Biblical > text. > However, I always distinguish between such speculation and knowledge that > comes from the Spirit or knowledge that is directly being communicated by > the sacred text. > > David Miller > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? > > > David:Please distinguish 'believe the same thing about these passages' > from > 'exact same understanding at this point in time'. It may be that > resolution > to the 'sticking point' may be at hand. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: March 16, 2006 09:31 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? > > >> Lance, I think the point Judy is making is that God's Spirit will lead >> the >> believer to believe the same thing about these passages. I don't think >> she >> means that every true believer will have the exact same understanding at >> this point in time. >> >> You mentioned employing 1 through 4. I actually have a lot of concern >> about >> ever employing number 4. People use emotions a lot in determining what >> they >> believe, but I think that is usually a mistake. When people go with >> emotion >> over logic, that is a mistake. Furthermore, emotions often cloud logic, >> and >> cause people to embrace falsehood. What do you think? >> >> David Miller. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lance Muir >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? >> >> >> 'ALL WHO ARE TAUGHT BY GOD WILL SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT GENESIS CHAPTERS >> 1 - 11' >> >> Have we just been provided with a perfect standard for determining who >> is/who is not 'taught by God'? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Judy Taylor >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected] >> Sent: March 16, 2006 07:57 >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth Knowable? >> >> >> I disagree with Lance. >> I say that all who are taught by God will say the same thing about >> Genesis >> Chapters 1 through 11 >> These are the ones who will all be saying the same thing in the end time >> and >> this is the "unity" Christ >> prayed for... The definition of "believer" should be "one who speaks as >> the >> oracles of God" >> >> On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:38:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> writes: >> Take Genesis chapters 1 - 3 or, if you prefer 1 - 11. Is TRUTH taught >> therein? Yes! Do all believers agree upon the TRUTH that is taught >> therein? >> No!.....................WHY? Further, upon employing 1 - 4 below will the >> outcome necessarily be other than 'NO'? >> From: David Miller >> >> I'm going to try and weigh in a bit here. >> >> I hear from Lance that sometimes truth and one's interpretation of truth >> does not coincide. >> >> I hear from Judy that sometimes one's interpretation of truth does >> coincide. >> >> I agree with these two statements. Do both of you? I think you both do, >> but if not, please speak up. >> >> I hear something else from Judy (and Izzy too), and that is that Lance >> seems >> to have no basis by which we can know whether or not our interpretation >> of >> the truth is accurate. This creates a problem in discussing truth, >> because >> then we all just have opinions and nobody knows the truth. Lance, do you >> understand this dilemma? (By the way, I'm with Izzy & Judy in this >> concern, >> so please try to address it if you can.) >> >> What standards of truth do we have, Lance? How can we know the truth? >> How >> can we know that we do know the truth? >> >> 1. The Bible? >> >> 2. The Spirit? >> >> 3. Logic? >> >> 4. Emotions? >> >> What role do each of these play in knowing truth? >> >> David Miller >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Judy Taylor >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed >> >> >> So what you are saying Lance is that there is no "objective truth?" That >> in >> fact if I say dog, you could be hearing cat? which means there is no >> such >> thing as a dog because this is just my interpretation? And if I write >> exactly what is written in scripture - because IYO truth changes >> generationally and according to culture then it really isn't truth >> because >> they could be saying dog and I might be hearing cat. Is this what you >> are >> saying Lance? >> >> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:47:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> writes: >> I've no problem acknowledging the 'fixity and eternality' of truth. I do, >> however, have a problem with some persons interpretations. I'd say to you >> that which I said to Kevin: Once you (Judy) are convinced that your >> statements concerning the truth (Scriptural quotations on any subject) >> are >> themselves the truth then, even the possibility of conversation is over. >> From: Judy Taylor >> >> I am saying that I don't understand your question Lance - so it looks >> like >> you have excused yourself again. >> Why are you so full of conditions - is it really that difficult to say >> what >> you mean? >> >> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:31:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> writes: >> When you answer my question then, I'll 'give it a shot' as it were. >> From: Judy Taylor >> >> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:02:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> writes: >> Would you be so kind Judy, as to restate 'apprehend and apply' so as to >> demonstrate to me that therein lies the meaning 'truth is NOT fixed and >> eternal..'? >> >> I say that truth IS fixed and eternal so would you please explain what >> you >> mean by the above ... >> >> Further Judy, should we actually be attempting to exhibit a 'new and >> improved' TT, was the last 'shot' necessary? ('dancing around a calf'). >> >> I think so Lance, and BTW it is not a "shot" We all come into this world >> with hearts full of idolatry, I examine my own daily. Remember, we are >> all >> "by nature" children of wrath. That is unless we walk after the "new >> nature" >> >> From: Judy Taylor >> >> Not so Lance; Truth is fixed and eternal in every generation. God does >> not >> change and neither does His Word >> which is forever sealed in heaven. As Dean warns - better be sure you >> are >> not dancing around a calf. >> >> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:42:17 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> writes: >> Each generation must apprehend then apply the truth in a manner >> appropriate >> to its time. This is but one reason IFO favour newer translations of all >> sacred texts, including the text of scripture. Some recent christian >> teaching/writing is an asset to the believing community. FWIW, I'd dance >> to >> that tune. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dean Moore >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: March 14, 2006 15:46 >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed >> >> >> cd: No, it was not honest. But then again since when did this dancing >> brotherhood ever worry about honesty-or truth-or The Truth? They are a >> fine >> testimony for their group thinking religion-which they claim is ongoing >> revelation given by the decision of the majority of the group. They claim >> to >> decide if God is Male / Female or whatever- I asked them : What if the >> majority decided that God is a calf and to date have gotten no reply to >> this >> question.. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: ShieldsFamily >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: 3/14/2006 11:58:47 AM >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The dearly departed >> >> >> >> So why did jd inquire of you about them? Was that honest??? iz >> >> On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:22:45 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> writes: >> cd; They have been in contact with Miller - Blain, DH ,John, Gary- and >> believe it or not Glen tabor.All in one group e-Mail-of which I seem to >> be >> the topic. >> >> >> From: ShieldsFamily >> >> Why dont you contact them directly? You have their email addresses, as >> do >> the rest of us. iz >> >> >> >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> By the way -- are we allowed to ask as to the status of Gary and DH? >> They are missed on this forum by some. >> >> jd >> >> >> ---------- >> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >> know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >> http://www.InnGlory.org >> >> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a >> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. >> > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know > how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
