David, allow me this moment to reveal just a tad about the
Smithmeister. Bulldogery is that which speaks of my
passion. Indeed, I have gotten angry twice, here on
TT, both times following one of your priceless comments
. Twice in three years (going back a ways
.)?!! Not bad, I think.
I am certainly NOT emotional in my response(s) on this
subject.
There have been times, in past postings, that you have
been even brilliant in your defense. This is not one of those
times. Science and creation is not one of your strong
points -- at least not this time around. I
suspect that you are distracted with other things.
To wit: God takes 26 seconds to speak all things
into existence - I say.
But you, wanting to present the act of creation as longer, say
exactly 144 hours (6 days times 24 hours for those of you
living near the Ozarks) retort with this -- For
example, if he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water,
it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and
water to do what he said.
Maybe that doesn't sound funny to you, but
honestly, it is a riot over here in my office. "Those dumb old
land masses -- they couldn't just POP into place.
N0 sir-reeeee. It took time for them to move
into place -- upwards of several hours
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Com'on big D !! Just
admit that the non-literal 24 hour crowd just might have a
point !!
Look -- if you give graduating high school
students your kind of information and send to them to Humbolt
State - why, within minutes, the whole bunch of them
would become atheists !! I have seen
this happen many times. Our young
people have left their individual churches thinking there is nothing
to evolution, or whatever, and when they sit in front of an
antongist, they are left naked, poor and numb.
You might not be impressed with my explanations offered
to my boys at U of Cal at Davies -- but let me
tell you this. I had been working on one line explanations for
years before my boys got to school. All of those
one-liners thoroughly defeated except for that one brief
paragraph of thought I gave in another post (the eternity of
matter and motion aand the philosophical advantage of going
with the eternity of God - thingy). I have
talked about "postulated" truth in the past -- that such is
considered to be "truth" but without the
possibility of PROOF. I have mentioned that science is as much
addicted to "faith" as a Christian to his God ..... all
things I could communicate in minutes over the phone.
And guess what -- my boys called!!! These guys each won
state wrestling championships and I coached them (AND YES I AM
MOST DEFINITELY BRAGGING). In some venues , they
completely trusted me and with reason. Probably the most
important long distance phone call I will ever receive from my
boys was THAT call -- "Dad, this prof is killing us
!! What do we say?"
There was no doubt in their minds that The Reply would
work. I could have lost both boys the next day in
class !! You should have heard that next phone call ....
the next evening !! Awesome.
How did I know it would work ? I went to several science
classes over the years and used my best stuff in class
-- none of it survived except the above..... but it was
enough.
Use the Bible as a battle ground AND YOU WILL CONDEMN YOUR
CHILDREN TO HELL. Get the educator to admit that his
world of knowing is not that much different than the Christian's and
you have common ground with which to discuss. You never
fight your opponent in his backyard !!
Since TT is almost over - one more story. My oldest
daughter came to me as a14 year old with her first job.
Her boss was an atheist. She tried to convert him and got beat
up in the process. "Dad, how do I defend inspiration to
Bruce?"
"Julie, you don't even try. Do this --
explain to him that all of the writers of the New Testament
scriptures were murdered for their beliefs and then ask
him, 'Bruce, don't you think you should at least examine what
it was they died for ?"
He told her he was prepared for any response but that one
!! That opened a door that was slammed shut two weeks
later in his drowning death at the lake. Was there light in
life because of that talk? I like to think there
was.
jd
--------------
Original message --------------
From: "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Interpretation/interpolation/speculation re:Genesis leads one
to that which one has just witnessed over the last week or
so.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 23, 2006
17:01
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism
I don't know why you are getting so emotional over
this.
I think that when God spoke, in many situations, it took
some time for what he said to take place. For example, if
he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water, it took
less than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and water
to do what he said. He also may have been involved in
other ways that we don't understand right now. Do you see
it differently? It does not have anything to do with
resting for the next day.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 23,
2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism
David !! Honestly, this is one of the
sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an atheist
mocks God and I am no atheist.
Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said
(144 hours of time to speak the words of creation that took
only 26 seconds to actually speak) is rather simple
-- you have somehow lost the context of my
statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is
not a 24 hour period. To say that it is
metaphorical does not mean that God did not
create the world and even in the sequence depicted
-- at least not to me. Such an admission ,
on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account
to be "scientific" as we understand that term ,
today. Look -- do you really believe
that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he
needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!??
And "rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is
impossible.
jd
--------------
Original message --------------
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Are you mocking the concept that God created the world
through faith and speaking? What does how long it
takes for him to speak words have to do with how long it
took for the world to come into being? I don't
understand your point.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday,
March 22, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
So which fundamentalist version of creation do
you support. That A & E were spirit
people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an
"unknown" e.t. ? The version that says
it took God 144 hours to speak words that
can be spoken in 24 seconds
!!! I just did it in 24 big ones
!! including a drink of water because my mouth
was getting dry.
Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad
Fundies cannot agree on much of anything.
Which version goes into the school system ??? We are
still waiting??
jd
--------------
Original message --------------
From: Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Don't you get it JT?
TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
The opinions of Men are the
key.....
Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So?
There isn't a single fiew of
the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church
either. What does that prove?
judyt
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I
do. I know this --
there isn't a single view of creationism that
is agreed upon by the whole church.
jd
--------------
Original message --------------
From: "David
Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
John wrote:
> The world in which we live would reject
> any mention of God in the evolutionary
process,
> IMO. But creationism
in the schools? Could
> that not be considered the beginnings of
a fanatical
> fundamentalist take-over of the culture?
ROTFLOL. I sure hope you were
being facetious on purpose.
John wrote:
> But to allow a mere statement that
suggests God
> is somehow in control as the
Creator(?) If this
> could be presented into the secular
system of
> education without it being coopted by
the fundies
> -- go for it. But I
doubt that it can. What a shame
> that radical fundamentalism within
Christiandom forces
> the Body to dismiss a perfectly
wonderful opportunity
> to introduce the Creator to
others.
In case you did not notice, the
fundamentalists are not causing the
acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden
in schools. It is the liberal loonies
like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are
doing this.
David Miller
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