I would agree with Magnus that the TSV Area would be a good place to start with 
a more detailed discussion of the topic, although the Transport Area Directors 
would be able to provide a more definitive opinion.  The one word of caution I 
would bring up is that the IETF tends to have a difficult time finding a home 
for architecture work that spans layers of the stack.  I don't know if this 
aspect is a requirement or a one potential use case scenario of your proposed 
work, but its something to keep in mind if you end up giving a presentation at 
the TSV area meeting.

-ken


On Jan 17, 2012, at 1:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Hello all.
> 
> My name is Jose Saldana, from the University of Zaragoza, in Spain. I am
> new in this area.
> 
> I would like to share with Transport Area a proposal, in case it
> could be considered interesting. The main idea is to update TCRTP. This
> is a "Best current practice" RFC (http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc4170/) 
> which was developed in Audio/Video Transport working group in 2005-11. It 
> "describes a method to improve the bandwidth utilization of RTP streams over 
> network paths that carry multiple Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) streams 
> in
> parallel between two endpoints, as in voice trunking. The method
> combines standard protocols that provide compression, multiplexing, and
> tunneling over a network path for the purpose of reducing the bandwidth
> used when multiple RTP streams are carried over that path." (from the
> introduction of RFC4170).
> 
> I have first sent this proposal to avtcore working group, but Magnus 
> Westerlund has answered this:
> 
> ________
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As you are proposing to go towards a more generic scheme I don't think
> this proposal really belongs in the WG, most likely not this area even.
> 
> I think this is a topic that primarily are related to Intarea and
> Transport. Intarea as the owner of the tunneling work in IETF and
> Transport as the actual aggregation and header compression is primarily
> transport topics.
> 
> A question I would have is where this type of mechanism would make
> sense. Where do you have scarce bandwidth capacity and are willing to
> pay the downsides of the ingress egress complexities and the impact on
> the traffic in regards to additional delay.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Magnus
> ___________________
> 
> So I would like to know if the work can better fit this area.
> 
> The scheme of TCRTP is:
> 
>  RTP/UDP/IP
>     |
>     |
>   ECRTP (compressing layer). Compresses RTP/UDP/IP headers
>     |
>     |
>    PPPMux (multiplexing layer). Includes a number of compressed packets
> into a bigger one
>     |
>     |
>   L2TP     (tunneling layer). Permits its use end-to-end
>     |
>     |
>     IP
> 
> However, there exist many real-time flows that do not use RTP:
> 
> - Online "First Person Shooter" (FPS) games use UDP datagrams, and they
> are one of the most "real-time" applications nowadays. Some examples:
> Counter Strike, Halo, Quake, etc.[1].
> 
> - Online "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games" (MMORPG):
> They use TCP, but can be considered "real-time", since the actions of
> the players have to be transmitted very quickly to the server. It should
> be taken into account that player vs player fights are one of the
> possible activities of the game. Some examples: World of Warcraft (more
> than 10 million subscribers) [2].
> 
> - TCP is also getting used for media delivery. For many reasons, such as
> avoiding firewalls, the standard IP/ UDP/ RTP protocol stack is
> substituted in many cases by IP/ TCP/ HTTP/ FLV [3].
> 
> - Another interesting scenario is satellite communication links.
> Multiplexing small packets into one packet for transmission would
> improve the efficiency. Satellite links would also find it useful to
> multiplex small TCP packets into one packet - this could be especially
> interesting for compressing TCP ACKs.
> 
> 
> In our recent research activities, we have adapted TCRTP scheme for its
> use when the traffic is not RTP. The idea is to substitute ECRTP by
> other compression scheme which can be used for UDP or TCP headers. In
> 2006, the IETF formed the Robust Header Compression (ROHC) working group
> which created specifications for header compression over links for RTP,
> UDP and TCP.  These specifications were extended to compress headers
> over other networks. For most RTP flows, ROHC is more bandwidth
> efficient than ECRTP, at the cost of implementation complexity. It has a
> special care of context synchronization, defining some states at the
> compressor and decompressor. Once the effort for designing ROHC has been
> conducted, it is worth including it in the compressing and multiplexing
> standard.
> 
> 
> In a recent paper in Nov. issue of IEEE Communications Magazine, it was
> shown that 30% of bandwidth saving can be achieved for 8 FPS different
> games using IPv4. If IPv6 is used, savings can be up to 54% [4]. Another
> recent study, which is still under review, has estimated 45% bandwidth
> saving for World of Warcraft.
> 
> 
> After talking to other researchers, including some of the authors of
> RFC4170, the possible scheme of the proposal could be this one:
> 
> 
> G.711.0 payload compression        TCP     UDP   UDP/RTP
>                 |                    |      |      |
>                 |                     \     |     /
>                 |                       \   |   /
>                 |               nothing or ROHC or ECRTP
>                 |                           |
>                  \                         /
>                    \                     /
>                multiplexing layer (other or PPPMUX)
>                           |
>                           |
>               tunneling layer (other or GRE or L2TP)
>                           |
>                           |
>                          IP
> 
> It should be more "open" than TCRTP. I mean, it could be "orthogonal" to
> different protocols: different header compression algorithms could be
> used, depending on the application and the scenario; also different
> multiplexing and tunneling protocols could be included. Finally, we have
> also included the G.711.0 "branch": it could be interesting to convert
> G.711 to G.711.0 (a lossless encoding of G.711) and back, using a
> similar tunneling mechanism. In a similar way to TCRTP, the G.711 to
> G.711.0 and vice versa conversion does not involve SIP/SDP/RTSP
> signaling with the endpoints, since G.711 has a fixed RTP payload number.
> 
> Regarding the scenarios, we have considered some of them:
> 
> - A provider of a real-time service (e.g. game or voip) can have an 
> infrastructure with a
> number of proxies that can group traffic from different users and send it to 
> the server.
> 
> - An Internet café, where a number (sometimes big) of players share the same 
> access link.
> Bandwidth is scarce in that scenario.
> 
> - A satellite link, where the bandwidth and the pps have to be saved.
> 
> 
> We have not written a draft. This is only the first idea, so we look
> forward to hearing the opinion of the Area.
> 
> 
> Thank you very much, and sorry for writing such a long message,
> 
> Jose Saldana
> 
> University of Zaragoza
> 
> ______________
> 
> [1] Ratti, S.; Hariri, B.; Shirmohammadi, S., "A Survey of First-Person
> Shooter Gaming Traffic on the Internet," Internet Computing, IEEE ,
> vol.14, no.5, pp.60-69, Sept.-Oct. 2010. URL:
> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5445069&isnumber=5562482
> <http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5445069&isnumber=5562482>
> 
> [2] P. Svoboda, W Karner and M. Rupp, "Traffic Analysis and Modeling for
> World of Warcraft," ICC '07. IEEE International Conference on
> Communications, pp.1612-1617, 24-28, Jun. 2007. URL:
> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4288941&isnumber=4288671
> <http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4288941&isnumber=4288671>
> 
> [3] G. Marfia and M. Roccetti, "TCP At Last: Reconsidering TCP's Role
> for Wireless Entertainment Centers at Home," IEEE Transactions on
> Consumer Electronics, Vol. 56, N. 4, Nov. 2010, pp. 2233-2240. URL:
> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5681095&isnumber=5681060
> <http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5681095&isnumber=5681060>
> 
> [4] J. Saldana, J. Fernández-Navajas, J. Ruiz-Mas, J. I. Aznar, E.
> Viruete and  L. Casadesus, "First Person Shooters: Can a Smarter Network
> Save Bandwidth without Annoying the Players?," IEEE Communications
> Magazine, Consumer Communications and Networking Series, vol. 49, no.
> 11, pp. 190-198, Nov. 2011. URL:
> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6069728&isnumber=6069696
> <http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6069728&isnumber=6069696>
> 
> 
> 

Reply via email to