One note on this one, although I probably will not join AQM, but instead watch
for useful results to emerge:

> >>> As I just said to Mikael, I don't think I worded that one well. I'm
> >>> envisaging two thresholds, testing two stress levels. It a lower one, one
> >>> marks ECN-capable traffic and drops non-ECN-capable traffic; at the higher
> >>> one, one drops from all traffic. What "threshold" means in a given
> >>> algorithm is algorithm-dependent, however.
> >
> > Great, I turn on ECN, and that gives me more delay, just what I want!
> > And, even better: the more people use ECN, the more delay everybody gets.
> 
> Could you please elaborate on how you came to this conclusion?
> 
> > Seriously, I see the incentive idea behind this two-level marking idea,
> > but one has to carefully consider the increased delay vs. gained
> > throughput trade-off in such a scheme.
>
> Why would it be better to drop the packet than to ECN-mark it?
> 
> Concrete example:
> 
> Buffer depth > 30 ms = mark ECN traffic, drop non-ECN traffic
> Buffer depth > 50 ms = drop all traffic
> 
> The congestion signal to TCP at buffer depth 30 ms is the same for both
> ECN and non-ECN traffic, so I don't see how this would increase the delay?

I assume a simple tail-drop example was used to make the point.  Proportional
random marking/dropping should be used for reasons that we're all familiar with.

Despite that, this is an example of how ECN is supposed to be configured -
CE is supposed to tell the receiver "I would have dropped this packet, but
I'm sending it to you instead as a favor - tell the sender to adjust its
transmission behavior as if the packet had been dropped, but there's no
need to retransmit this packet."

Thanks,
--David (RFC 3168 co-author)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Mikael Abrahamsson
> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 1:11 AM
> To: Michael Welzl
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-baker-tsvwg-aqm-
> recommendation-00.txt
> 
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013, Michael Welzl wrote:
> 
> >>> As I just said to Mikael, I don't think I worded that one well. I'm
> >>> envisaging two thresholds, testing two stress levels. It a lower one, one
> >>> marks ECN-capable traffic and drops non-ECN-capable traffic; at the higher
> >>> one, one drops from all traffic. What "threshold" means in a given
> >>> algorithm is algorithm-dependent, however.
> >
> > Great, I turn on ECN, and that gives me more delay, just what I want!
> > And, even better: the more people use ECN, the more delay everybody gets.
> 
> Could you please elaborate on how you came to this conclusion?
> 
> > Seriously, I see the incentive idea behind this two-level marking idea,
> > but one has to carefully consider the increased delay vs. gained
> > throughput trade-off in such a scheme.
> 
> Why would it be better to drop the packet than to ECN-mark it?
> 
> Concrete example:
> 
> Buffer depth > 30 ms = mark ECN traffic, drop non-ECN traffic
> Buffer depth > 50 ms = drop all draffic
> 
> The congestion signal to TCP at buffer depth 30 ms is the same for both
> ECN and non-ECN traffic, so I don't see how this would increase the delay?
> 
> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email protected]

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