Bill
I think we are talking about having a couple of examples that could be
used right out the box for truly beginners, but having a more advanced
version where you could use Maven to build your skeleton and even your
Torque specific classes would be a very nice thing to have for Torque
specific and more advanced users. There's no reason why we should have one
instead of the other. I think we could and should have both.
Rodrigo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Turbine Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
> I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
>
> Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
> throwing up documentation?
>
> I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
> build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
> help automate the process for newbies.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
> > Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample
apps
> > that he has created.
> >
> > If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of
Henning's
> > sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into
it.
> >
> > Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting
exploded
> > directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to
talk
> > about.
> >
> > As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send
me
> > the error messages.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
> > > To: Turbine Developers List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > >
> > >
> > > Quinton
> > > Given all that, we would need:
> > > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
> > > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
> > > start working with them.
> > > 3) People willing to test all this.
> > > Am I right?
> > >
> > > Rodrigo
> > > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
> > > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
> > > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
> > > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
> > > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> > >
> > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
> > > > > To: Turbine Developers List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Quinton
> > > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
> > > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
> > > you had a
> > > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
> > > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
> > > you wanted
> > > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
> > > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
> > > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
> > > instead of
> > > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
> > > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
> > > JPublish
> > > > > was Turbine based).
> > > >
> > > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
> > > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
> > > if there is
> > > > a database involved.
> > > >
> > > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
> > > advance on how
> > > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
> > > Turbine,
> > > > > all I wanted was
> > > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
> > > to be used
> > > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
> > > interested in
> > > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
> > > the whole
> > > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
> > > ready-to-be-used wars
> > > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
> > > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
> > > application
> > > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
> > > the sources
> > > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
> > > directory. Maven
> > > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
> > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
> > > framework for
> > > > > beginners...
> > > >
> > > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
> > > >
> > > > > Rodrigo
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
> > > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
> > > > > > the configuration files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
> > > easy to get
> > > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
> > > > > application
> > > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
> > > > > > understanding how it worked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
> > > > > distribution
> > > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
> > > > > then tried
> > > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
> > > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
> > > continued
> > > > > > using Turbine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
> > > > > commercial
> > > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
> > > > > the TDK any
> > > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
> > > > > found that
> > > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
> > > > > understand what was
> > > > > > required and what was not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
> > > > > drop the TDK
> > > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
> > > have working
> > > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
> > > generate a
> > > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
> > > > > things should
> > > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
> > > > > the TDK is a
> > > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
> > > > > address this by
> > > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
> > > Tomcat. You
> > > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
> > > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
> > > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
> > > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
> > > > > container.
> > > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
> > > > > > deploy.
> > > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
> > > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Quinton McCombs
> > > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
> > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
> > > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
> > > > > using the TDK
> > > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
> > > > > if Turbine
> > > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
> > > distributing its
> > > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
> > > > > you was a
> > > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
> > > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
> > > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
> > > process a lot
> > > > > > > more trasparent.
> > > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rodrigo
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
> > > > > > > hopefully everyone
> > > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
> > > > > > > be to work
> > > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
> > > > > need to know
> > > > > > > > a couple of things:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
> > > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
> > > already? 3. And
> > > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
> > > > > that havent
> > > > > > > > already been put forth?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
> > > > > however I have
> > > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
> > > > > stuff? The
> > > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
> > > > > > > points to
> > > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
> > > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -b
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> --
> Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
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